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Originally posted by Tshotsho KhalapaTo be blunt, the conclusion on the OP is that your opening post is unsupported and erroneous. You stated:
I don't understand, sir.
'Jesus Christ and Jehovah are one. During creation of the heaven and the earth Jesus was there. He was there yesterday, He is there today and He will be there tomorrow. He is always with us. Let us be mindful of those facts which can be proved beyond reasonable doubt.'
The things you describe are not 'facts' and can not be 'proved beyond reasonable doubt.' If they were, would i be responding to you as an atheist. (Please think on that).
The most you can say is that they are factual 'to you' and proved beyond reasonable doubt 'to you.' - 'For me' it is proved beyond all reasonable doubt that God doesn't exist. Does that make my view factual?
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeYou are saying that to you it has been proved that God does not exist. What prove do you have? All things taking place in the world today have been prophysied that they will take place. Even the fact that people will not believe in the word of God, my point is directed at the facts which can be proved by using verses from the Bible.Let me put it to you that God does exist, do not be derailed by the all the problems we encounter in this world and use that to say God does not exist. I suggest you read Ephesians 6-10-19. It will give you a perspective of my argument. I have always said let us not deviate from the topic. The OP is about Jesus and God being one.
To be blunt, the conclusion on the OP is that your opening post is unsupported and erroneous. You stated:
'Jesus Christ and Jehovah are one. During creation of the heaven and the earth Jesus was there. He was there yesterday, He is there today and He will be there tomorrow. He is always with us. Let us be mindful of those facts which can be proved ...[text shortened]... it is proved beyond all reasonable doubt that God doesn't exist. Does that make my view factual?
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25 Mar 16
Originally posted by Tshotsho KhalapaI do not view the bible as a factual document, so any 'facts' you extrapolate from it are meaningless to me. Asking that i prove God does not exist is akin to asking me to prove the non-existence of Bigfoot.
You are saying that to you it has been proved that God does not exist. What prove do you have? All things taking place in the world today have been prophysied that they will take place. Even the fact that people will not believe in the word of God, my point is directed at the facts which can be proved by using verses from the Bible.Let me put it to ...[text shortened]... . I have always said let us not deviate from the topic. The OP is about Jesus and God being one.
I am perfectly happy to accept that you believe God exists, but it is erroneous to claim (matter of factly) that his existence has been proved beyond reasonable doubt and for everyone to take that as a starting point. Well sir, that's not my starting point.
25 Mar 16
Originally posted by josephwThank you, I believe that will be the conclusion. God bless you. I wish to thank all contributors to this OP. I know I did not answer many questions directed at me, I apologise.Many people contributed by answering most of the questions, I thank you all.
As you stated in the OP. Jesus is the first and the last. The beginning and end. The alpha and omega. That's the conclusion. 😉
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25 Mar 16
Originally posted by Tshotsho KhalapaTwenty Reasons Why the Doctrine of the Trinity is Unbiblical
Thank you, I believe that will be the conclusion. God bless you. I wish to thank all contributors to this OP. I know I did not answer many questions directed at me, I apologise.Many people contributed by answering most of the questions, I thank you all.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjL3f6thdzLAhWFTCYKHUfVAN4QFggdMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.christianmonotheism.[WORD TOO LONG].pdf&usg=AFQjCNEvL_s3tBhMayIpIoqRI6NVTdOUYg&cad=rja
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27 Mar 16
Originally posted by Tshotsho KhalapaYou don't have to close this thread. There are still many good things we can fellowship about concerning Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1.
Yes, I understand. Do you agree with the conclusion? You see, I want to close this OP.
I would say Genesis 1:1 concerns the beginning of the creation of the universe - of space and time and matter and all physical things.
I would say the beginning in John 1:1 is, well, a beginning without a beginning. This is hard to express in human language. I think John 1:1 is not speaking of the beginning of the world but eternity - the Word was with God, and the Word was God..
In other words I would hold that John 1:1s "In the beginning was the Word" is more transcendent than Genesis 1:1's "In the beginning God created ...".
IE. When Psalm 90:1 speaks of God "from eternity to eternity" that is more the sense of John's 1:1 beginning.
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If we examine this passage very carefully we should be able to see that Jehovah God is both the Sent one and the Sender. This is a mysterious matter which the Bible reveals and men can experience even though they cannot fully explain how God does this.
" For thus says Jehovah of hosts, After the glory He has sent Me against the nations who plunder you; for he who touches you touches the pupil of His eye. (v.8)
For I am now waving My hand over them, and they will be plunder for those who served them; and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me. (v.9)
Give a ringing shout and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, for now I am coming, and I will dwell in your midst, declares Jehovah. (v.10)
And many nations will join themselves to Jehovah in that day and will become My people; and I will dwell in your midst; and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me to you." (v.11) (Zech. 2:8-11)
1.) In verse 8 who is the speaker ? "Jehovah of hosts"
2.) In verse 8 who has sent the speaker ? " ... thus says Jehovah of hosts, After the glory He [Jehovah of hosts] has SENT Me against the nations ..."
3.) In verse 9 who is waving His hand over them ? "For I am waving My hand over them ... and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me."
The one whom Jehovah has sent will wave His hand.
4.) But who is this one sent by Jehovah of hosts ? "For thus says Jehovah of hosts ..." . The speaker Jehovah of hosts the one speaking in the whole passage.
5.) In verse 9 what will they know about the speaker, Jehovah of hosts, who is waving His hand over them? " ... and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me." .
They will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Jehovah of hosts. They'll know it.
It doesn't say that they will be able to explain it.But they will know it.
6.) In verse 10 who is the one who is coming to dwell in the midst of His people?
" ... shout and rejoice O daughter of Zion, for now I am coming, and I will dwell in your midst, DECLARES JEHOVAH".
Jehovah is the one who will dwell in their midst.
7.) In verse 11 what will they know when Jehovah comes to dwell in their midst ?
"And many nations will join themselves to Jehovah in that day and will become My [Jehovah's] people; and I [Jehovah] well dwell in your midst, and YOU WILL KNOW THAT JEHOVAH OF HOSTS HAS SENT ME TO YOU."
God, Jehovah, is both the Sender and the One Sent.