Genesis 1:1 , John 1:1

Originally posted by Suzianne
Apparently, you're the people who don't quite grok what an accurate translation looks like.

At least my dogma comes from my Bible. So where does yours come from, coming, as it did, long [b]before you created your Bible? And why does your translation, which came after your dogma was established, happen to mimic your already-made dogma [i]prec ...[text shortened]... sely backwards. People scorn you because they can see you're busted. There's no "there" there.[/b]

Originally posted by Suzianne
I suppose you can provide a list of these so-called "enemies of God"?

I suppose we're just supposed to take your word for it, then?



Still not a word about Isaiah 43:11. Noted.

Originally posted by sonship
[b]
Seems to this atheist that Trinitarians are searching for something in the bible that isn't there in its teachings, and is simply a later construct, - If God truly was 3 persons, why would the biblical message be so vague about this?
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When you received ...[text shortened]... hree-one God is very much seen in Scripture before the church fathers coined the term "Trinity".[/b]

An interesting reply, but i do wonder at the need to capitalise 'FACT' which just gives the impression you are really trying to sell it.
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I am persistent in sharing the Gospel. And if you prefer small letters in "FACT" then read it as "fact".


(I'm sure you would feel the same about an atheist capitalising FICTION).
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They can capitalize FICTION if they wish. You have to decide whether you are being told the truth by Atheists or by Christians like myself.

Did you not see that a human child was called God in Isaiah 9:6 ?
Did you fail to grasp that a "son" takes on the name "Eternal Father" ?

Now think about. The prophecy is saying that the uncreated and eternal Mighty God will become a human child.

"The Mighty God" is Jehovah you know ?

" The Mighty One, God Jehovah, Speaks and summons the earth from the rising of the sun to its setting." (Psalm 50:1)

" ... but they will rely upon Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. A remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, to the mighty God." (Isa. 10:20b,21)

" For you are our Father, Since Abraham does not know us, And Israel does not acknowledge us. You, Jehovah, are our Father; Our Redeemer from of old [or everlasting] is Your name." (Isa. 63:16)

"But now Jehovah, You are our Father; We are the clay; and You, our Potter; And all of us are the work of Your hand." (64:8)

An argument should stand on its own merits without the need for upper case theatrics. (Especially when something is closer to tenuous than factual).
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See then the fact of what the Bible teaches. The Mighty God is the name of a child who spends nine month in the womb of a human women. See the fact that a "son" given takes the name of "Eternal Father". So we see that God incarnated as a man, a God-man.

And it should be thought a fact that in human history the Person who most acted this part, of God became a man, is Jesus of Nazareth.

Look, I'm sorry if Atheists don't have anything worth getting excited about.

If you stare long enough at a few blobs of ink on a page you'll probably convince yourself that you can see a butterfly. The same goes for the bible. There will always be a few passages, here and there, than can be interpreted to support pretty much any proposition.
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No, I don't think people take seriously the frivolousness of trying to make the Bible support anything.

If you don't think Isaiah meant to convey the Mighty God becomes a child or that the Eternal Father becomes a Son given, explain why. But just saying, "Oh, look at anything in the Bible long enough and ..." means nothing to me.


Given long enough i could probably claim biblical support for the notion that Abraham was a traveling salesman. Such claims of course would only tarnish the meaning of the original text.
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You checked Wikipedia on Trinity. Why not go check Wikipedia on Abraham and see if you can come up with "traveling salesman"? You're being selective in your references to theological names and topics. It seems like you want to back off into nonsense and trivialization only at select moments.

Originally posted by sonship
[b] An interesting reply, but i do wonder at the need to capitalise 'FACT' which just gives the impression you are really trying to sell it.
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I am persistent in sharing the Gospel. And if you prefer small letters in "FACT" then read it as "fact". ...[text shortened]... cs. It seems like you want to back off into nonsense and trivialization only at select moments.[/b]

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
There are two entirely different terms in scripture for Mighty God and Almighty God. You know this because its been pointed out to you countless times and your unwillingness to grapple with the reality is because you have come to scripture with an extra biblical doctrine which you seek to justify rather than let scripture speak for itself. Its the ultimate in arrogance.

"And when Abram was ninety-nine years old, Jehovah appeared to Abram and said to him,

I am the All-sufficient God; ..." (Genesis 17:1 Recovery Version )

This article is about the Judaic name of God. For other uses, see El Shaddai (disambiguation). "God Almighty" redirects here. For other uses, see God Almighty (disambiguation).

English Standard Version
When Abram was ninety-nine years old the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless,

New American Standard Bible
Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty; Walk before Me, and be blameless.

King James Bible
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
When Abram was 99 years old, the LORD appeared to him, saying, "I am God Almighty. Live in My presence and be blameless.

An interesting reply, but i do wonder at the need to capitalise 'FACT'

Originally posted by sonship
And I have pointed out to you that both Mighty God and Almighty God refer to [b]Jehovah.

Whoever the child (Isa. 9:6) is is the same Person as "the mighty God" in 10:21. And that is "Jehovah" - (verse 20).

And of course the Almighty God is also Jehovah in Genesis 17:1

"And when Abram was ninety- ...[text shortened]... ORD appeared to him, saying, "I am God Almighty. Live in My presence and be blameless.

Copied without permission from CARM - Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry:

https://carm.org/paul-think-jesus-was-god

1. Jesus is Yahweh

Perhaps one of the clearest indications that Paul thought Jesus was Yahweh comes from the fact that he used Monotheistic Old Testament passages which uniquely referred to Yahweh and applied them to the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 10:13, cf. Joel 2:32, 1 Cor. 1:31, cf. Jer. 9:24, 1 Cor. 2:16, cf. Isa. 40:13, 1 Cor. 10:26, cf. Ps. 24:1, 2 Cor. 10:17, cf. Jer. 9:24 for just a few examples). 1 Corinthians 2:16, for example, alludes to Isaiah 40:13 which is in the context of some of the most explicit monotheistic statements in the entire Old Testament (cf. Isaiah 40:13-28, 43:10, 44:6, 8, 45:5).

1A. Romans 10:13, cf. Joel 2:32

Romans 10:13, "For 'WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.'"2

Joel 2:32, "“And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD will be delivered; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be those who escape, as the LORD has said, even among the survivors whom the LORD calls."

Comments: The LORD reference here is to Yahweh. However, Paul takes the Lord reference in Joel 2:32 and applies it to Jesus in Romans 10:13.

1B. 1 Corinthians 1:31 cf. Jeremiah 9:24

1 Corinthians 1:31, "So that, just as it is written, 'LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.'"

Jeremiah 9:24, "'But let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things,' declares the LORD."

Comments: The Lord in 1 Corinthians 1:31 is a reference to Jesus while the quotation is a reference to Yahweh.

1C. 1 Corinthians 2:16, cf. Isaiah 40:13

1 Corinthians 2:16, "For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ."

Isaiah 40:13, "Who has [a]directed the Spirit of the LORD, Or as His counselor has informed Him?"

Comments: The Lord in the context of 1 Corinthians 2 is Jesus while the Lord in Isaiah 40:13 is Yahweh.

1D. 1 Corinthians 10:26, cf. Psalm 24:1

1 Corinthians 10:26, "FOR THE EARTH IS THE LORD’S, AND ALL IT CONTAINS."

Psalm 24:1, "The earth is the LORD’S, and all it contains, the world, and those who dwell in it."

Comments: The Lord in the context of 1 Corinthians 10 is Jesus while the Lord in Psalm 24:1 is Yahweh.

1E. 2 Corinthians 10:17, cf. Jeremiah 9:24

2 Corinthians 10:17, "But HE WHO BOASTS IS TO BOAST IN THE LORD."

Jeremiah 9:24, "'But let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things,' declares the LORD."

Comments: The Lord in the context of 2 Corinthians 10 is Jesus while the Lord in Jeremiah 9:24 is Yahweh.

Originally posted by sonship
Copied without permission from CARM - Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry:

https://carm.org/paul-think-jesus-was-god

1. Jesus is Yahweh

Perhaps one of the clearest indications that Paul thought Jesus was Yahweh comes from the fact that he used Monotheistic Old Testament passages which uniquely referred to Yahweh and applied them to ...[text shortened]... in the context of 2 Corinthians 10 is Jesus while the Lord in Jeremiah 9:24 is Yahweh.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
not a piece of sound reasoning among the entire text, you think that you can bludgeon people into submission with walls and walls of text.

Originally posted by sonship
Your loss, not that of believers in Jesus.

Try your luck with blood transfusion arguments or pledge to a flag arguments or some other Watchtower claptrap.

Originally posted by sonship
Your loss, not that of believers in Jesus.

Try your luck with blood transfusion arguments or pledge to a flag arguments or some other Watchtower claptrap.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
at least our stance on blood can be Biblically substantiated, its more than we can say for your pagan idolatry.