Genesis 19

Originally posted by darvlay
Thank you, Kirksey. I'll begin the discussion.

Calling out Lucifershammer!

You stated that this scripture teaches us that homosexuality is contrary to God's will/wishes. Please explain how you came to this conclusion.

"For w ...[text shortened]... c. Back then, God wasn't very patient with folks like he is now.

I never said that Sodom/Gomorrah was destroyed because folk there practised homosexuality. As you say, they could've been idolators, uncharitable hosts etc etc.

What I did say was that I infer that homosexuality is contrary to God's will, as shown in the following verse:

Lot went out to meet them at the entrance. When he had shut the door behind him, he said, "I beg you, my brothers, not to do this wicked thing. (Gen 19:6-7)

Originally posted by lucifershammer
I never said that Sodom/Gomorrah was destroyed [b]because folk there practised homosexuality. As you say, they could've been idolators, uncharitable hosts etc etc.

What I did say was that I infer that homosexuality is contrary to God's will, as shown in the following verse:

Lot went out to meet them at the entrance. When he had s ...[text shortened]... ind him, he said, "I beg you, my brothers, not to do this wicked thing. (Gen 19:6-7)[/b]

So if Lot says its wicked than it is so? So does that mean it's okay for me to give up my two daughters to be raped? Is it safe to base God's hatred of Homosexuality on inferences?

Originally posted by darvlay
So if Lot says its wicked than it is so? So does that mean it's okay for me to give up my two daughters to be raped? Is it safe to base God's hatred of Homosexuality on inferences?

You left out that part about the incest.

Originally posted by kirksey957
You left out that part about the incest.

Whoops. Silly me.

I find it amazing how people interpret the Bible to serve whatever personal meaning they want to ascribe to it. As it is the infallible Word of God, there should logically be little room for interpretation. This is what is wrong. Period. There is no grey in God's eyes. Only black (sin) and white (not sin).

Originally posted by darvlay
Whoops. Silly me.

I find it amazing how people interpret the Bible to serve whatever personal meaning they want to ascribe to it. As it is the infallible Word of God, there should logically be little room for interpretation. This is what is wrong. Period. There is no grey in God's eyes. Only black (sin) and white (not sin).

Well, I happen to like interpretation. I am still awaiting the input from some very absent people on this thread.

Originally posted by darvlay
So if Lot says its wicked than it is so? So does that mean it's okay for me to give up my two daughters to be raped? Is it safe to base God's hatred of Homosexuality on inferences?

It is not wicked because Lot says so; Lot says so because it is wicked. Not that everything Lot says or does is right - but this statement is corroborated by other verses from the Bible.

Originally posted by kirksey957
Well, I happen to like interpretation. I am still awaiting the input from some very absent people on this thread.

Do you really like interpretation? Things would be much easier if the Bible came with a warning label: "Do Not Interpret". Could you imagine? Just follow the rules and thou shalt be saved, my brother! How easy would that be? Sure it would be a drag to have to wear clothing made of only one kind of textile but not working on the Sabbath would be pretty sweet! Although stoning my Brother if he did work on the Sabbath would be lame but hey, he knew the rules...the moron.

Intrepretation causes me to ask questions that nobody EVER EVER answers to my satisfaction.

1. Who gets to do the interpreting?
2. Will we know this person when we see them?
3. Will there be many interpreters, or just one?
4. Will they ever dissagree, and if they do, what then?
5. If there are many interpreters can I be one? Do I have to work on Sunday?

I mean honestly, you throw the ability for us to interpret what we read in the Bible into the mix and we have anarchy. What makes my interpretation any less valid than anyone elses? If I'm expected to use this book as some sort of road map to God's good graces then why is it so damn arbitrary!! I mean, my eternal frickin life is at stake here, sheesh. If I manage to jump through the right hoops down here on earth, God and I are going to have a serious talk when i get to heaven...his system sucks.

TheSkipper

Originally posted by TheSkipper
Do you really like interpretation? Things would be much easier if the Bible came with a warning label: "Do Not Interpret". Could you imagine? Just follow the rules and thou shalt be saved, my brother! How easy would that be? Sure it would be a drag to have to wear clothing made of only one kind of textile but not working on the Sabbath would be pret ...[text shortened]... od and I are going to have a serious talk when i get to heaven...his system sucks.

TheSkipper

Interpretation is a fact of life. You can't understand this sentence without two cognitive capabilities - interpretation and logic. Without either, you could not post a sensible sentence.

Originally posted by TheSkipper
Do you really like interpretation? Things would be much easier if the Bible came with a warning label: "Do Not Interpret". Could you imagine? Just follow the rules and thou shalt be saved, my brother! How easy would that be? Sure it would be a drag to have to wear clothing made of only one kind of textile but not working on the Sabbath would be pret ...[text shortened]... od and I are going to have a serious talk when i get to heaven...his system sucks.

TheSkipper

Let's substitute the word "Constitution" for "Bible".

1. Who gets to do the interpreting?
2. Will we know this person when we see them?
3. Will there be many interpreters, or just one?
4. Will they ever dissagree, and if they do, what then?
5. If there are many interpreters can I be one? Do I have to work on Sunday?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Let's substitute the word "Constitution" for "Bible".

1. Who gets to do the interpreting?
2. Will we know this person when we see them?
3. Will there be many interpreters, or just one?
4. Will they ever dissagree, and if they do, what then?
5. If there are many interpreters can I be one? Do I have to work on Sunday?

It's possible to amend the constitution.

Originally posted by Coletti
Interpretation is a fact of life. You can't understand this sentence without two cognitive capabilities - interpretation and logic. Without either, you could not post a sensible sentence.

I think the jury is still out on whether I can post a sensible sentence. 😉

I know it is a fact of life and my lament of interpretation was more sacasm than anything else. But the notion of biblical interpretation leads to some fairly uncomfortable truths. For instance, if my interpretation of the Bible is no less valid than anyone else's then I know some Christians that are going to take serious issue with the result.

I ask again...who gets to do the interpreting?

TheSkipper

Originally posted by KneverKnight
It's possible to amend the constitution.

That's irrelevant to the questions I posed (you posed, actually).

So, how do you recognise who the interpreters of the constitution are?

EDIT: I don't know about your Constitution, but mine has some articles that can NEVER be amended, btw. Such as those about basic human rights.

Originally posted by TheSkipper
I think the jury is still out on whether I can post a sensible sentence. 😉

I know it is a fact of life and my lament of interpretation was more sacasm than anything else. But the notion of biblical interpretation leads to some fairly uncomfortable truths. For instance, if my interpretation of the Bible is no less valid than anyone else's then I kno ...[text shortened]... serious issue with the result.

I ask again...who gets to do the interpreting?

TheSkipper

I would probably start with the organisation that gave us the Bible in the first place.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Let's substitute the word "Constitution" for "Bible".

1. Who gets to do the interpreting?
2. Will we know this person when we see them?
3. Will there be many interpreters, or just one?
4. Will they ever dissagree, and if they do, what then?
5. If there are many interpreters can I be one? Do I have to work on Sunday?

Not the same thing. If we choose the wrong people to interpret the constitution (judges) then the country may get screwed up and justice may or may not be done. If we choose the wrong people to interpret the Bible, or interpret it incorrectly ourselves, a whole bunch of folks wind up in a lake of fire for eternity.

This is like (although much worse than) sentencing people to death by the drawing of straws.

TheSkipper

Originally posted by lucifershammer
I would probably start with the organisation that gave us the Bible in the first place.

Ok, so "The Church" gets to interpret the Bible? Or are you suggesting we channel the authors?

The problem is, "The Church" cannot seem to get its ducks in a row and agree on a single interpretation. Whcih one shall I choose, if you please? Protestantism, Catholicism, Judaism?

TheSkipper