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@wolfgang59 saidExactly.
Aren't we all sinners?
Does god hate us all?
Well according to KellyJay who likes to use the bible to fire barbs at his detractors basically telling them God hates them but loves him.
@wolfgang59 saidGod loves us and is trying to save us from the fate we are heading too, one that
Aren't we all sinners?
Does god hate us all?
will cause us to be rejected from His Kingdom. He will not accept sinners not saved
by Jesus Christ, we are all sinners in need of Jesus Christ. If we stand before God in
our own righteousness we are already condemned, we need the righteousness of
God which can only happen through Christ's sacrifice for us. He took our guilt and
paid the price for it in full. It is to the glory of God for each of us who turns to Him,
because He is saving sinners, the worst of us and the best, we all require God’s
grace. He can save us, but we must turn to Him making Him our Lord and Savior.
We are dead in our sins currently, and can not do anything to save ourselves, or
make ourselves worthy.
The day of judgment everything about our lives will be on display, every word,
every act, every time we should have acted or said something. The God who sees
every particle in the universe and how they relate to everything past, present, and
future will put our lives up for examination. The judgment will be very complete,
nothing about us will remain secret. Our only hope is the blood of Jesus Christ
which was shed for our sins and the life of God He gives us at our turning to Him
and repenting.
This again because He first loves us, not that we did anything to deserve it.
@sonship saidYou sound like a cult member reacting to someone who has left your cult. Is the idea that, if you get under my psychological skin viz a viz "self-esteem" and "a man drowning", that I'll come back into the fold? I am not joking; you sound a bit like a Jehovah's Witness or a Scientologist. How am I "fighting for air", sonship? All I did was to paraphrase and reiterate your beliefs and the beliefs of posters like KellyJay on a debate forum and what... it means my "self-esteem is so precariously low"?
I mean your self esteem is so precariously low that you cannot afford any criticism.
The tiniest bit of suggestion of you not being just already perfect invokes a wild reaction like a man drowning and fighting for air.
@divegeester saidIt's a very difficult question.
KellyJay wrote this:
"...a good God will forever hate the wicked, the evil, sinners, and will not accept them as these all fall short."
Thread 179544 page 1, post 9, paragraph 1
I completely disagree with this statement by KellyJay and incidentally so does dj2becker. But KellyJay is refusing to discuss it with me and dj2becker is refusing to ...[text shortened]... e you are not"[/i]
Personally I think it's the latter but your thoughts and opinions are welcome.
But Kelly does have a point. There are plenty of works in the Old Testament that talk about this, and there is a lot written in the New Testament that hints at this as well, but it does so in a way that is less ostentatious because the message has shifted and a gospel has been born.
Yet... I would tend to agree with Kelly... Just as we are to hate sin, God can make the judgment call, when the day is completely through and all has ended, that somebody has actually been consumed by sin.
Judging is not for us, though, and what is our job and our duty is to pray for people to turn away from sin.
You know how it is though, right... God takes us at our best moment. God takes us as we are when we are most like Saints. God sees that, and remembers it, and as long as we stay true to such a thing to some degree, and have remorse and recognition, and real repentance, God is merciful and forgiving, and He will personally defeat the demons that are attacking us.
But if we are prideful and we reject God, and we revel in our sin, and we never make a move to go beyond it... then, God is right in scorning us. May I never be in such a position, though, and may I never judge those who are as such, because that is not my business or position.
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21 Dec 18
@philokalia saidDenver mind the waffle Jacob. Here is the quote by KellyJay
It's a very difficult question.
But Kelly does have a point. There are plenty of works in the Old Testament that talk about this, and there is a lot written in the New Testament that hints at this as well, but it does so in a way that is less ostentatious because the message has shifted and a gospel has been born.
Yet... I would tend to agree with Kelly... Just as ...[text shortened]... n, though, and may I never judge those who are as such, because that is not my business or position.
KellyJay wrote this:
"...a good God will forever hate the wicked, the evil, sinners, and will not accept them as these all fall short."
As sinners does he love us or hate us?
22 Dec 18
@divegeester saidThe "waffle" is completely necessary to understanding and discussing this.
Denver mind the waffle Jacob. Here is the quote by KellyJay
KellyJay wrote this:
"...a good God will forever hate the wicked, the evil, sinners, and will not accept them as these all fall short."
As sinners does he love us or hate us?
Do you understand that?
My post alsotalks about what your question is at the end, so give me a reason why I should answer a poorly framed question meant to dismiss the post that I made previously?
Give me one good reason, and I'll answer it.
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@philokalia saidThe “waffle” is your obfuscation designed to cover up the fact that you haven’t actually answered the question.
The "waffle" is completely necessary to understanding and discussing this.
Do you understand that?
My post alsotalks about what your question is at the end, so give me a reason why I should answer a poorly framed question meant to dismiss the post that I made previously?
Give me one good reason, and I'll answer it.
How can God love and die for the sinners of the world while he simultaneously, according to KellyJay as I’ve quoted, hates them?
It’s another erroneous nonsence which no amount waffle and fur ball posts will hide.
@philokalia saidGod isn't going to allow one of those groups into His Kingdom, He has called all,
Is there a difference between a repentant sinner and an unrepentant sinner in the Bible?
Because it's here where you'll find your answer.
given all room for repentance. Showing all His longsuffering by the offer of grace,
but if it isn't accepted, they remain as they are. If they needed saving and they
refuse or ignore it they will remain as they are sinners, wicked, evil and unfit for the
Kingdom of God. There would be no reason to save anyone if as they are/were
always good enough without Jesus Christ, without turning away from sin and
towards God's salvation.
We only become righteous enough to enter into God's Kingdom by having God
within our lives, living our lives in Him, loving Him and others as we were always
meant to do. We are all one group of people, all sinners in need of salvation, no
one in either of those groups is any better than the other when comparing them
to each other, its only when one turns to Christ is there a distinctions with a
difference, and that Jesus Christ due to God's salvation, it isn't at all about how
good any of us are, but who are the willing to accept God's grace by faith and
obey and trust Him.
You are without a doubt correct.
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23 Dec 18
1 edit
@philokalia saidWhat is does say is that Jesus loved us so much that died for us “while we were still sinners”.
Is there a difference between a repentant sinner and an unrepentant sinner in the Bible?
Because it's here where you'll find your answer.
If someone can please explain to me how God can hate sinners, (according to KellyJay) while he loved us so much that he died for us while we were still sinners, I would be very grateful.
KellyJay may have the answer to my question but it seems he is too proud to discuss it with me. Probably because he hates me for being a sinner, but who knows.
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@kellyjay saidYou would like to think he was correct because that would let you off of the pride hook you have found yourself on yet again. If you had one ounce of humility you would admit your error and move on.
God isn't going to allow one of those groups into His Kingdom, He has called all,
given all room for repentance. Showing all His longsuffering by the offer of grace,
but if it isn't accepted, they remain as they are. If they needed saving and they
refuse or ignore it they will remain as they are sinners, wicked, evil and unfit for the
Kingdom of God. There would be no re ...[text shortened]... willing to accept God's grace by faith and
obey and trust Him.
You are without a doubt correct.
23 Dec 18
@divegeester saidThe Word of God makes it perfectly clear. If one rejects Christ as savior they will die in their sins and be separated from God forever.
You would like to think he was correct because that would let you off of the pride hook you have found yourself on yet again. If you had one ounce of humility you would admit your error and move on.
It's a biblical no-brainer and not a topic of debate.
23 Dec 18
@secondson said1 Peter 4:18 should be a clue how dangerous our position before God is!
The Word of God makes it perfectly clear. If one rejects Christ as savior they will die in their sins and be separated from God forever.
It's a biblical no-brainer and not a topic of debate.
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24 Dec 18
@secondson saidKellyJayjay claims that God hates sinners and yet God says in his word that he loved so much that while we were still sinners his died for us.
The Word of God makes it perfectly clear. If one rejects Christ as savior they will die in their sins and be separated from God forever.
It's a biblical no-brainer and not a topic of debate.
Clearly God does not hate sinners and KellyJay has made an error which, as is usual with him, he is too prideful to admit to.