06 Nov 11
Originally posted by karoly aczelI think it was Archimides back in 200 BC established that the earth was round. Most cultures like the Eyptians and the Aztecs also knew that. Its only some foolish Europeans 500 years ago, who thought that the earth was flat.
I am not sure of this at all, I was just wondering, asking a question along the lines of : Didn't people back in biblical times think that the Earth was flat and therefore drew some different conclusions about the universe than if they knew it was spherical?
If they knew for sure that people 2000 years ago knew the Earth was round, just tell me and give me one reason or reference. That reason can even be an educated guess 🙂
The Bible has nothing on that issue.
So are you retracting your statement that God gave out information that was untrue?
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by Rajk999I do not agree with any christian intepretation of god unfortunately, so it wouldn't mean much to retract my statement.
I think it was Archimides back in 200 BC established that the earth was round. Most cultures like the Eyptians and the Aztecs also knew that. Its only some foolish Europeans 500 years ago, who thought that the earth was flat.
The Bible has nothing on that issue.
So are you retracting your statement that God gave out information that was untrue?
Lets just say I am satisfied with your explanation for now .
"the bible has nothing on that issue". Do you believe that the bible writers 'didn't have enough paper' to write everything they wanted to, so omitted some parts or did they just not think that topic relevant? Because they had Genesis, which is essentially an account of how our world came to be. It seems funnyweird to have an account of how the world came to be without one reference to a spherical Earth.
(I'm just thinking aloud here and not drawing any hasty conclusions.)
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by karoly aczelWell maybe if you dont believe in God then why bother to make remarks which are untrue about the God in which you dont believe.
I do not agree with any christian intepretation of god unfortunately, so it wouldn't mean much to retract my statement.
Lets just say I am satisfied with your explanation for now .
"the bible has nothing on that issue". Do you believe that the bible writers 'didn't have enough paper' to write everything they wanted to, so omitted some parts or di ...[text shortened]... spherical Earth.
(I'm just thinking aloud here and not drawing any hasty conclusions.)
The Bible is not a book of science, neither is it a book which contains all knowledge available at the time. Nothing is wrong with the Bible. Something is wrong with YOUR EXPECTATIONS about God and the Bible.
06 Nov 11
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999Now I feel as if I'm talking to a five year old. Some one who has made up their mind about who or what I think god is, and has the audacity to turn around and tell me that I dont have a belief in god when the op and most of my posting history tries to paint a totally different picture of god than the christian one. I really did find that first line downright rude, mate. Do you think you could read the thread title again before coming back with such nonsense?
Well maybe if you dont believe in God then why bother to make remarks which are untrue about the God in which you dont believe.
The Bible is not a book of science, neither is it a book which contains all knowledge available at the time. Nothing is wrong with the Bible. Something is wrong with YOUR EXPECTATIONS about God and the Bible.
There is something wrong with the bible.
and no, it does not live up to my expectations, but the teachings of jesus Christ are sound,(except for the bit that says" you cant get to the Father except through me". I believe that bit has been misunderstood by many christians.)
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by karoly aczelOk I retract that line and I apologise. But the same principle applies. You seem to be making statements which are not well thought out simply to condemn the Christian God.
Now I feel as if I'm talking to a five year old. Some one who has made up their mind about who or what I think god is, and has the audacity to turn around and tell me that I dont have a belief in god when the op and most of my posting history tries to paint a totally different picture of god than the christian one. I really did find that first line down ...[text shortened]... the Father except through me". I believe that bit has been misunderstood by many christians.)
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by Rajk999Well if it comes across as condeming ths christian God then one or both of us are not communicating properly.
Ok I retract that line and I apologise. But the same principle applies. You seem to be making statements which are not well thought out simply to condemn the Christian God.
Please note the difference between "God", "the bible writers" ,"the interpretations of christians" and what JC taught. They are all a bit (or more), different .Some ideas even outright clash. It would be nice if all these various sources were more or less the same, but that is not the case.
I have deliberately tried to keep some of my posts here short and simple, hence my childish approach, which I will admit. But I had no ill feeling towards christians when writing the op but did suspect that the subject would raise the eyebrows of one or two christians out there.
Is that clear enough?
Do you think there is anything I should apologize for?
06 Nov 11
2 edits
I'll say again, that for someone to hold Jesus up as a beacon of truth, but declare the God of the bible to be evil on some level, or to claim the Old Testament is not reliable, just doesn't jive.
Jesus made reference to the Old Testament time after time after time. And He did so in the context that it is the Word of His Father, God almighty. If the Old Testament were some unreliable document worthy only of fireplace kindling... then Jesus clearly would have avoided making so many spirited references to it and in support of it.
If one is a Christian and follows the teachings of Christ, in my mind it is clear that they must also accept Christ's obvious claim that the God of the Old Testament is His Father, and the Old Testament is a reliable, truthful text.
There's just no getting around that other than by some warped, Progressive-Liberal mishmash conjured up by pseudo Christians and completely unsupported by the bible.
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by sumydidI'd be careful of labeling, here.
I'll say again, that for someone to hold Jesus up as a beacon of truth, but declare the God of the bible to be evil on some level, or to claim the Old Testament is not reliable, just doesn't jive.
Jesus made reference to the Old Testament time after time after time. And He did so in the context that it is the Word of His Father, God almighty. If the Old ...[text shortened]... e-Liberal mishmash conjured up by pseudo Christians and completely unsupported by the bible.
I'm one of these so-called Progressive Liberals.
I also believe in God, in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Bible as the Word of God.
One does not negate the other.
(I'm not exactly warped, either, although some would deny this claim. 😛 )
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by karoly aczelThe ideas in the Holy Bible do not clash. Therefore, you are not
Well if it comes across as condeming ths christian God then one or both of us are not communicating properly.
Please note the difference between "God", "the bible writers" ,"the interpretations of christians" and what JC taught. They are all a bit (or more), different .Some ideas even outright clash. It would be nice if all these various sources wer ...[text shortened]... there.
Is that clear enough?
Do you think there is anything I should apologize for?
understanding them correctly. This should be a clue to you that
you need further study to find the truth so the ideas are properly
understood.
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by SuzianneA paradox. HalleluYah !!!
I'd be careful of labeling, here.
I'm one of these so-called Progressive Liberals.
I also believe in God, in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Bible as the Word of God.
One does not negate the other.
(I'm not exactly warped, either, although some would deny this claim. 😛 )
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by SuzianneSorry, sis.
I'd be careful of labeling, here.
I'm one of these so-called Progressive Liberals.
I also believe in God, in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Bible as the Word of God.
One does not negate the other.
(I'm not exactly warped, either, although some would deny this claim. 😛 )
Point taken.
06 Nov 11
1 edit
However, not to be too technical but there are 2 different kinds of Progressive Liberals.
There are the political Progressive Liberals.
And there are the biblical Progressive Liberals.
From my understanding, the former can believe whatever they want politically, and still believe the bible is the Word of God. But as far as I know, the latter do not believe the bible is the Word of God. In fact, not even close.
But still, I am curious, could you add some more material into this because if you are in the latter group and do believe the bible is the Word, then I've got some learning to do (on top of all the other learning I've got to do)
06 Nov 11
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsThank you but really, how many times do I need to hear that arguement. Any poster that knows me a bit knows to not go there when it comes to claiming that it is only because of a lack of biblical information that would finally set me on the right track. If anything further reading of the bible only backs up my suspicion more.
The ideas in the Holy Bible do not clash. Therefore, you are not
understanding them correctly. This should be a clue to you that
you need further study to find the truth so the ideas are properly
understood.
I can concretely say that christianity in its entirity is false .It s not good enough for me even though it may be good enough for some of you.(That doesn't mean that I dont respect true "christians", quite the contrary, they are really 'cool' to have been converted to such a half-a$$ed belief system. They are the real heros of christianity.) But I digress..
So , again, at best christianity is one religion for realizing "God" , (or get saved,etc.), at worst it is potentially the greatest lie perpetuated on the human race by the powers that be, who wanted to maintain their reign despite the teachings of JC.
JC's teachings were watered down ,just enough, to confuse the general populice and use his name as a platfrom for their controlling belief systems so as to create and maintain the satus quo .
Please stop making inferences about me just because I am not christian, you would be surprised as to how many excellent points there are in the bible, that I readily admit.... Of course I have my own interpretations like everyone else.
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by sumydidI do not know what a "biblical Progressive Liberal" is, but I'd say that if they do not believe the bible is the Word of God, then they're not Christians. What it does sound like to me, though, is that you're using the words "Progressive Liberal" to mean "two-faced" or "liar", or some such.
However, not to be too technical but there are 2 different kinds of Progressive Liberals.
There are the political Progressive Liberals.
And there are the biblical Progressive Liberals.
From my understanding, the former can believe whatever they want politically, and still believe the bible is the Word of God. But as far as I know, the latter do not b ...[text shortened]... the Word, then I've got some learning to do (on top of all the other learning I've got to do)
I don't understand your last sentence though, or what you want from me. I said I believe the Holy Bible is the Word of God, and so I would think that would be clear enough? How could I believe and yet not believe? Some non-Christian in this forum (I forget who) even called me a fundamentalist, just because I believe the Book of Revelation about the AntiChrist. I'm not crazy about that label either.