Good works and gratitude...

Originally posted by josephw
Why do you ask?

I know I'm saved, and I know that those that are closest to me are saved, but I don't know for sure about any one else that I don't know personally.

Let's be honest here. What is salvation? Salvation from what? Salvation to what?

I'm not the one that defines salvation.

If one believes in God, that there is a creator God, and tha ...[text shortened]... rum. Why not? After all, isn't that what this format is for? To make the case for truth?

That's not my style. Everyone has a diferent style. I like to ask questions to get people to think and look at the absurd. I'll give you an example. In a conversation with a man the other day , he informed me that if Obama were to be shot in the head, survive and be able to govern , he would be the antichrist. I simply asked him if he could point out in the Bible where guns had been invented. That's my style. That's how I roll.

Originally posted by LemonJello
Truth be, I don't care much for the word 'salvation'. If I had to attach a notion to it, though, it would have something to do with ego disintegration. It would certainly have nothing to do with your religious superstitions and stories.

"Ego disintegration"?

That, is exactly what religious superstition is.

But it also speaks volumes about those that would embrace such a belief. And if one could be honest with oneself about it, one would see that THAT is exactly what religion is all about. The self.

Religion is a system of beliefs and practices based on human effort to achieve to a relationship with God or some other attainment that ultimately aggrandizes the self.

The only way to die to the self that works, that one will ever find in this world, is found in Christ.

Originally posted by kirksey957
That's not my style. Everyone has a diferent style. I like to ask questions to get people to think and look at the absurd. I'll give you an example. In a conversation with a man the other day , he informed me that if Obama were to be shot in the head, survive and be able to govern , he would be the antichrist. I simply asked him if he could point out in the Bible where guns had been invented. That's my style. That's how I roll.

I know. And that's ok with me. I'm not judging you. But I think we are to tell the truth. If it is your style to ask questions to get folks to think, than don't you think the end purpose is to guide them into the truth?

Originally posted by josephw
I know. And that's ok with me. I'm not judging you. But I think we are to tell the truth. If it is your style to ask questions to get folks to think, than don't you think the end purpose is to guide them into the truth?

If thinking isn't the way to get to the truth, what is?

Originally posted by kirksey957
If thinking isn't the way to get to the truth, what is?

That depends on what one is thinking about, don't you think?

I love having the capacity to think. But I want to be sure that what I'm thinking, and the way I'm thinking, is true.

I can think about anything I can imagine, But to think in terms of what is the truth about what I'm thinking is my goal.

For example, when I think about my eternal soul, I want to know that what I'm thinking is true and right.

The question is then, how do I know that what I'm thinking about, concerning my soul in relation to it's eternal destiny, is true and right?

I believe the answer is found in an objective external sourse, and not in endless internal examinations generated by my imagination.

Originally posted by josephw
That depends on what one is thinking about, don't you think?

I love having the capacity to think. But I want to be sure that what I'm thinking, and the way I'm thinking, is true.

I can think about anything I can imagine, But to think in terms of what is the truth about what I'm thinking is my goal.

For example, when I think about my eternal soul, I ...[text shortened]... ve external sourse, and not in endless internal examinations generated by my imagination.

How do you know the Holy Spirit isn't working through your internal examinations of your imagination?

Originally posted by Rajk999
And then they ask me why do I insult people. I asked nicely for no preaching and just a couple of verses. I got no verses and preaching.

Thanks for nothing.

Do you really need me to quote verses in order to show that God is Love and not fear? If you need a verse in order to understand His love then it's a pretty poor show.

The Bible clearly teaches that God is Love and that Jesus is the example of that Love. It clearly shows us that we are to follow Jesus' example in how to love and Jesus loved people without fear and with no other motive than to just love them.

Do you dispute any of this? Why do you avoid engaging with this?

Originally posted by josephw
"Ego disintegration"?

That, is exactly what religious superstition is.

But it also speaks volumes about those that would embrace such a belief. And if one could be honest with oneself about it, one would see that THAT is exactly what religion is all about. The self.

Religion is a system of beliefs and practices based on human effort to achieve to a ...[text shortened]... way to die to the self that works, that one will ever find in this world, is found in Christ.

And if one could be honest with oneself about it, one would see that THAT is exactly what religion is all about. The self.

Yikes.

Of course, this is exactly your problem. Lets leave aside for a second the fact that your religion is outrageously false. On top of that, it is also not very effective at things believers often purport it to be effective at -- things like somehow alleviating our vague existential dilemma or bringing about great personal transformation. Why? Because, as you claim, it's all about the self. Of course, in its better moments, religion denies the self and believers get together and work toward ideals that are other-regarding. No doubt, religion can do great things, but only when you take your eyes off your silly prize. Maybe you just don't understand this yet. Knightmeister at least seems to understand this, even if I think his prescription is naive.

Religion is a system of beliefs and practices based on human effort to achieve to a relationship with God or some other attainment that ultimately aggrandizes the self.

In other words, idolatry coupled with delusions of grandeur. Thanks, but I'll pass.

Originally posted by knightmeister
Do you really need me to quote verses in order to show that God is Love and not fear? If you need a verse in order to understand His love then it's a pretty poor show.

The Bible clearly teaches that God is Love and that Jesus is the example of that Love. It clearly shows us that we are to follow Jesus' example in how to love and Jesus loved people ...[text shortened]... e than to just love them.

Do you dispute any of this? Why do you avoid engaging with this?

Produce the verses or shut up. Thanks.

Originally posted by kirksey957
How do you know the Holy Spirit isn't working through your internal examinations of your imagination?

That's easy. The Holy Spirit works through the Word of God.

It, the word of God, is, "The Truth", and as one consumes the truth of God, aided by the Holy Spirit, one can avoid being tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine.

Look, asking questions as a tool to help an individual come to the knowledge of the truth is useful. But don't you think the one asking the questions should have a fundamental grasp of the truth in order to be of use to the one needing guidance?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Produce the verses or shut up. Thanks.

raj my friend, i do have to admit that it can be terribly frustrating when certain ones produce spiels of preaching and not one verse, perhaps they are not used to using scripture, perhaps they regard their own thoughts as of greater importance, perhaps it ties them down to defending undefendable doctrines, perhaps they have had their faith in scripture wrecked by higher criticism and the likes, perhaps they are unsure of what the scriptures actually indicate and they may be made to look foolish, who knows, who knows my friend ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Produce the verses or shut up. Thanks.

I read this and mistakenly thought I was in the Hear the Gospel thread.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
I read this and mistakenly thought I was in the Hear the Gospel thread.

Yer killin' me! 😵

Originally posted by Rajk999
I see. Thanks for the tip.

So if I were extremely nice to KM he would have produced the verses. From where? There are NO verses to support the rubbish he wrote. Its HIS COMMON SENSE. Does your doctrine rely on KM's common sense? Mine does not.

No--not common sense; just common courtesy.😀

Originally posted by Rajk999
Produce the verses or shut up. Thanks.

If I did would you then re-visit my argument and think about what I am saying? Do you really need a verse in order to believe/know God is Love?

I could equally ask you to produce the verses that show that what I am saying is false , you have yet to do so.

I think basically you are stalling for time and looking for any way you can to avoid angaging with the debate.