15 Apr 12
Originally posted by whodeyNo that was not the point of my question. I do not subscribe to the Bible so its "truth" is moot. My question is about the approach of Christians who see themselves as individualist and non-conforming - see themselves as 'not members' of a group, but with a direct relationship with "God" - and who have mutually exclusive interpretations of "the written word" or who pluck idiosyncratic or tendentious interpretations from scripture - as often evidenced on this forum. How do you think your quote "All we like sheep have gone astray having each turned to his own way" applies to them?
I see, so your point is that the Bible is teaching conformity and not truth. All I can say is that when I have decided to not "conform" to the written word, it has a nagging tendency of biting me in the arse latter on.
15 Apr 12
Originally posted by whodeylike sheep ?? Such a bad analogy.
The Bible puts it a little differently, "All we like sheep have gone astray having each turned to his own way".
And no, its nothing new.....
So am I a guru yet or not? ðŸ˜
I assume your question is a joke, I was going to lol it but on second thoughts , I'm not really laughing
15 Apr 12
Originally posted by whodeyI never sought a guru. He found me.
The Bible refers to the human race as "sheep". Not a very flatering term, since all it takes is one sheep to jump off a cliff for all of the rest of them to do the same. However, historically speaking as we see certain "shepherds" lead the masses to destruction with frightening ease, is this not the case?
For people like Karoly and Dasa they seek gurus to help guide them as they do what they consider to be right in their own eyes.
15 Apr 12
Originally posted by JS357The Guru must not only possess theoretical knowledge but also must have travelled on the path , met his/her salvation, and came back to help fellow humans to achieve Serenity at least , if not Liberation. He should be like Bodhisattva-- the Tathagat meaning the one who has travelled on the path and came back.
The guru is an interesting concept with ancient roots, historically and linguistically.
I find fascinating the number of Western words that go back to the Sanskrit and to the Proto-Indo-European roots. Here is a wikipedia comment on the word guru.
As a noun the word means the imparter of knowledge (jñāna; Also Persian: Dāna). As an adjective, i ...[text shortened]... full of grace.
Positive reinforcement for relatively positive behavior.
Guru also seeks out his/her disciples just as troubled humans seek a Guru. Guru is always looking for an appropriate disciple to whom he can convey his Knowledge and Experience.
Guru tests out his disciple by first trying to crush his ego. Ego is the biggest obstacle in the search of Reality and one must surrender or yield oneself to the Guru if one wants to realize God. By Ego I mean here the feeling of Superiority, the Smugness that almost all of us have, the Pride or hubris.
In the Hindu tradition, Seva or service of the Guru is an essential part of learning.
In the old days, the disciple used to camp in the Ashram ( the Lodgings ) of the Guru and do all sorts of menial work starting from cleaning the yard, washing clothes and cleaning the utensils. Begging for food from not more than 5 houses was required of the disciple to feed himself. After such initiation, the Guru used to guide the disciple in the intricacies of the Hindu Spiritual Knowledge, including the practice of Raj Yoga or Hatha Yog. These days, many Ashrams, esp. where foreigners are flocking, resemble luxury hotels.
15 Apr 12
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Originally posted by karoly aczelReally? So you don't need a shepherd?
like sheep ?? Such a bad analogy.
I assume your question is a joke, I was going to lol it but on second thoughts , I'm not really laughing
In the real world, many sheep probably don't think that as well, till they are face to face with something that wants to devour them.
15 Apr 12
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Originally posted by FMFThose that call themselves Christians are a wide and diverse group. Not all would agree that those that claim to be Christians really are Christians.
No that was not the point of my question. I do not subscribe to the Bible so its "truth" is moot. My question is about the approach of Christians who see themselves as individualist and non-conforming - see themselves as 'not members' of a group, but with a direct relationship with "God" - and who have mutually exclusive interpretations of "the written word" or All we like sheep have gone astray having each turned to his own way" applies to them?
Secondly, not all Christians are going to agree with theolgical questions. The disciples were no different as they argued about circumcision and the need to keep the Jewish laws. In the end though, the sheep hear the voice of their shepherd and move accordingly.
15 Apr 12
Originally posted by whodeyAre you suggesting I dont live in the real world or what?
Really? So you don't need a shepherd?
In the real world, many sheep probably don't think that as well, till they are face to face with someone that want to devour them.
Because I dont think I need a "shepherd"
15 Apr 12
Originally posted by Dasa"...and have an excellent spotless character."
The word or term Guru has become tarnished.
One out of a five thousand gurus today are bonafide.
Thats right - and today if you go to India there are Gurus on every corner selling their particular self styled Vedic teaching.
Even in the West you would find it very hard to find a genuine Guru.
A bonafide guru must at least reference the Vedic teachin ...[text shortened]... rinciples and living in accordance to Vaisnava conduct and have an excellent spotless character.
There's not a soul on earth with a "spotless character."
Jesus is the only soul who ever lived that was spotless.
15 Apr 12
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Originally posted by karoly aczelTake it for what it is worth, we have a limited intellectual capacity and are weak feable creatures that are mortal. Sounds pretty "sheepish" to me.
Are you suggesting I dont live in the real world or what?
Because I dont think I need a "shepherd"
Of course, it takes a dose of humility to come to this admission, but it is true nonetheless.
15 Apr 12
Originally posted by whodeyI'm sorry . I dont subscribe to your world view.
Take it for what it is worth, we have a limited intellectual capacity and are weak feable creatures that are mortal. Sounds pretty "sheepish" to me.
Of course, it takes a dose of humility to come to this admission, but it is true nonetheless.
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15 Apr 12
Originally posted by rvsakhadeoMaybe the modern person feels him or herself to have achieved equivalent surrender by having no internet connection.
The Guru must not only possess theoretical knowledge but also must have travelled on the path , met his/her salvation, and came back to help fellow humans to achieve Serenity at least , if not Liberation. He should be like Bodhisattva-- the Tathagat meaning the one who has travelled on the path and came back.
Guru also seeks out his/her disciples just as ...[text shortened]... Hatha Yog. These days, many Ashrams, esp. where foreigners are flocking, resemble luxury hotels.