hitler in heaven - a test

Originally posted by SwissGambit
If the Bible's God had merely said, "Look, I decide by fiat who I will save and who I will not save", there would be no contradiction.

The trouble lies in the claims that God is love, and God is just, when some of his judgments are demonstrably neither loving nor just.

The Bible does merely say that salvation is of the Lord and that he will have mercy on who he will, and who he will not he hardens. He decides by his own will, not by faith. Faith is the result of his mercy.

You have to read all of Romans to get what I am saying.

Originally posted by pritybetta
I didn't mean in a court room.

You don't get it do you? The Lord is the maker, what he does is righteous.

The Lord is the maker, what he does is righteous.

Are you saying that it is permissible for god to do whatever he fancies with what he has created, merely in light of the fact that he created it?

Originally posted by pritybetta
I didn't mean in a court room.

You don't get it do you? The Lord is the maker, what he does is righteous.

A human can certainly judge without being in a court room.

You're absolutely right on your 2nd point. Bizarro-speech, by definition, is using certain words with an extremely warped, or even opposite meaning, compared to how the words are normally used. It is not really meant to be understood by the reader; only accepted at face value. So yeah, I don't get it.

Originally posted by pritybetta
The Bible does merely say that salvation is of the Lord and that he will have mercy on who he will, and who he will not he hardens. He decides by his own will, not by faith. Faith is the result of his mercy.

You have to read all of Romans to get what I am saying.

What do you make of the biblical claims that God is love and God is just?

Originally posted by LemonJello
[b]The Lord is the maker, what he does is righteous.

Are you saying that it is permissible for god to do whatever he fancies with what he has created, merely in light of the fact that he created it?[/b]

Is it okay for you to make something like a painting and then turn around and burn it?

Originally posted by pritybetta
Is it okay for you to make something like a painting and then turn around and burn it?

That may well be okay, but a painting is not a moral patient. Is it okay for god to create a happy little infant and then turn around and burn it?

Originally posted by SwissGambit
What do you make of the biblical claims that God is love and God is just?

He is love, however, this does not mean he can not hate someone for he loved Jacob but hated Esau.

He is just, and if he hates someone it is in a just way unlike the way humans hate.

Originally posted by pritybetta
He is love, however, this does not mean he can not hate someone for he loved Jacob but hated Esau.

He is just, and if he hates someone it is in a just way unlike the way humans hate.

if he hates someone it is in a just way unlike the way humans hate.

Could you explain how that works? How does one hate another, but in a just way?

Originally posted by LemonJello
That may well be okay, but a painting is not a moral patient. Is it okay for god to create a happy little infant and then turn around and burn it?

We are all born in sin, we lie as soon as we come out of the womb. Have you ever herd a baby cry for nothing? It don't matter what the Lord has made nor if he wants to burn it. It is HIS creation and the thing that is made has no right to say that he is unjust for creating something just to burn it.

Originally posted by pritybetta
We are all born in sin, we lie as soon as we come out of the womb. Have you ever herd a baby cry for nothing? It don't matter what the Lord has made nor if he wants to burn it. It is [b]HIS creation and the thing that is made has no right to say that he is unjust for creating something just to burn it.[/b]

You were telling lies as soon as you came out of the womb? You must have developed quickly. All I did was pee on the nurse when I came out.

It don't matter what the Lord has made nor if he wants to burn it. It is HIS creation and the thing that is made has no right to say that he is unjust for creating something just to burn it.

So it's permissible for god to do anything he wants with us? It is permissible for him to torture babies if that is what he wants to do?

Originally posted by LemonJello
You were telling lies as soon as you came out of the womb? You must have developed quickly. All I did was pee on the nurse when I came out.

[b]It don't matter what the Lord has made nor if he wants to burn it. It is HIS creation and the thing that is made has no right to say that he is unjust for creating something just to burn it.

So it's per ...[text shortened]... he wants with us? It is permissible for him to torture babies if that is what he wants to do?[/b]

So it's permissible for god to do anything he wants with us? It is permissible for him to torture babies if that is what he wants to do?
-------------lemon------------------------

I do see your point from a moral point of view. But then if he is God he doesn't need permission from anybody to do anything.

Originally posted by knightmeister
So it's permissible for god to do anything he wants with us? It is permissible for him to torture babies if that is what he wants to do?
-------------lemon------------------------

I do see your point from a moral point of view. But then if he is God he doesn't need permission from anybody to do anything.

I do see your point from a moral point of view.

Then you see my point.

But then if he is God he doesn't need permission from anybody to do anything.

That has nothing to do with my point.

Originally posted by pritybetta
He is love, however, this does not mean he can not hate someone for he loved Jacob but hated Esau.

He is just, and if he hates someone it is in a just way unlike the way humans hate.

A being who is the embodiment of love is capable of hatred? Yeah, right.

Originally posted by LemonJello
[b]if he hates someone it is in a just way unlike the way humans hate.

Could you explain how that works? How does one hate another, but in a just way?[/b]

Have you ever made something and decided that you hated something about it? It is the same way with the Lord.We are his creation, if he wants to hate part of it he can and he is just to do so because HE was the creator.

If we hate another due to our own feelings or to be accepted by others it is unjust. If we hate another because he/she hates the Lord then it is just. They are enemies of the Lord.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
A being who is the embodiment of love is capable of hatred? Yeah, right.

Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.