"How can a God of love send anybody to Hell?"

Originally posted by divegeester
An eternal punishment is not the same as being alive and being punished for eternity. If you are dead in eternity, that is an eternal punishment. Do you see the difference?

I did not say that those that are thrown alive into the Lake of Fire remain alive for ever and ever. I believe that at least their resurrected body becomes dead and something about them (maybe their soul or spirit) is tormented with an everlasting punishment because they are described as without rest day or night forever.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I believe that at least their resurrected body becomes dead and something about them (maybe their soul or spirit) is tormented with an everlasting punishment because they are described as without rest day or night forever.

You are welcome to your horrendous beliefs about your version of the Christian god.

Do you have specific scripture that demonstrates clearly this assumption you are making here.

EDIT: that is that part of them dies but part of them continues to actually still be alive.

Originally posted by divegeester
You are welcome to your horrendous beliefs about your version of the Christian god.

Do you have specific scripture that demonstrates clearly this assumption you are making here.

EDIT: that is that part of them dies but part of them continues to actually still be alive.

The apostle Paul stated that for him to be absent from the body was to be present with the Lord. He was writing about the death of his body. So obviously, he must have been thinking that his soul and spirit would be with the Lord when his body died.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Jesus was clear a couple other things there. Like who goes into the everlasting fire.

Those who did not do good works. Do you also accept that part of your quote?

I accept the whole quote, why wouldn't I?
Kelly

Originally posted by divegeester
Good grief Kelly do you ever read anyone else's posts? For once and for all:

I have no argument that the bible says there is a second death

I have no argument that the bible says this occurs in a lake of fire

I have no argument that the lake of fire is described as everlasting

I have no argument that the bible says the devil will be in there ...[text shortened]... the lake of fire (which is itself everlasting) forever/eternity.

What is it with you people!

Everlasting punishment sounds like it is going to be an everlasting
punishment to me. I do read the posts, I'm pointing out to you that I don't
see this temporary punishment as described by you anywhere in scripture.
Kelly

Originally posted by RJHinds
The apostle Paul stated that for him to be absent from the body was to be present with the Lord. He was writing about the death of his body. So obviously, he must have been thinking that his soul and spirit would be with the Lord when his body died.

Yes, he was born of the spirit of God; those cast not the lake are not, are they.

This is bloody hard work.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Everlasting punishment sounds like it is going to be an everlasting
punishment to me. I do read the posts, I'm pointing out to you that I don't
see this temporary punishment as described by you anywhere in scripture.
Kelly

When someone is executed it (that they are dead) is everlasting is it not? Are they still alive? No they are not. It not difficult.

Originally posted by divegeester
When someone is executed it (that they are dead) is everlasting is it not? Are they still alive? No they are not. It not difficult.

Agreed, but when we do it they die, it does not end them forever.
You are speaking about what God is going to do, the verses given to you
seem quite clear on the subject. You have been arguing against them
mainly out of how you view God, not out of what the words in scriptures
actually say.
Kelly

Originally posted by divegeester
When someone is executed it (that they are dead) is everlasting is it not? Are they still alive? No they are not. It not difficult.

I'd also point you to another scripture that has Jesus talking about
two people who died, one he actually names. Because he names him this
leads me to believe it is a true story about these two men, others may
disagree. I'd point out to you a couple of things, first off these two guys
are dead, yet suffering is taking place, conversations are taking place,
and one is worried about his brothers who are still alive. They are both
dead one in Abraham’s bosom, and one in Hades, this is not the 2nd
death, the 2nd death still has not happen yet, and Hades and Abraham’s
bosom are places where the dead go, or at least they did till Jesus died.

Luke 16:
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'd also point you to another scripture that has Jesus talking about
two people who died, one he actually names. Because he names him this
leads me to believe it is a true story about these two men, others may
disagree. I'd point out to you a couple of things, first off these two guys
are dead, yet suffering is taking place, conversations are taking pla ...[text shortened]... not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”

Even if you choose to take the story literally there is no indication that the rich man would experience eternal torment.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Even if you choose to take the story literally there is no indication that the rich man would experience eternal torment.

I've given other scriptures to speak to that, this one lets us know that
when we die, there is more going on than us just leaving this place. If as
you correctly said, if this story can be taken literally, which I believe it
should be for the reasons I've stated.
Kelly

Originally posted by divegeester
Death is NOT life for eternity in an incinerator while god watches.

What is this fascination with you about God "watching"?

Would it be better if God didn't "watch"? Because in a true separation from God, I would assume God would turn His back and have nothing further to do with them.

Don't get me wrong. For a long, LONG time, I was the only outspoken advocate of annihilationism in this forum and I went through many debates with the others all alone.

I just don't get your morbid fascination with God "watching".

Originally posted by KellyJay
I've given other scriptures to speak to that, this one lets us know that
when we die, there is more going on than us just leaving this place. If as
you correctly said, if this story can be taken literally, which I believe it
should be for the reasons I've stated.
Kelly

Ok but this story since it is not the second death in the lake of fire it cannot be connected to what Christ is referring to. Quite likely it is the place Catholics call purgatory in which the rich man found himself. Purgatory is frowned upon by many but the concept is found in the Septuagint but not in the KJV.

So if the rich man was in purgatory where he was tormented he would still face judgement when Christ returns. At that time his torment may end with him receiving eternal life [I dont know what Purgatory is about], or he may be terminated in the lake of fire.

The lake of fire burns for ever. Certain beings are tormented for ever but I have still to see a passage in the bible which supports the view that ordinary unworthy humans/people will be tormented for all eternity.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Ok but this story since it is not the second death in the lake of fire it cannot be connected to what Christ is referring to. Quite likely it is the place Catholics call purgatory in which the rich man found himself. Purgatory is frowned upon by many but the concept is found in the Septuagint but not in the KJV.

So if the rich man was in purgatory where ...[text shortened]... which supports the view that ordinary unworthy humans/people will be tormented for all eternity.

I don't care what the Catholics believe about purgatory, I'm simply going
over what is in scripture. If I understand the concept of purgatory and
I have never studied or care to so I may be wrong, I thought it was
a place to suffer till you were ready for forgiveness. I don't buy into that
at all, if you die in your sins in this life, you are about to face judgment
there isn't a second chance earned through suffering in purgatory.
Kelly

Originally posted by Rajk999
Even if you choose to take the story literally there is no indication that the rich man would experience eternal torment.

This is a repeat post, it does talk about eternal torment.

" I think Jesus is very clear on how long punishment is going to last.
Kelly

Matthew 25:
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”"