Originally posted by no1marauderOk. Explain it. Your assertion is worthless. Prove your point. Show how clear it is without making any guesses or references to OT or other books of the Bible.
You're a joke. The language is clear and whether it uses the words "Judgement Day" or not, it's an explicit description of it, the ONLY one in Scripture. You don't accept the words of Jesus yet call yourself a Christian. There are no loopholes; either Jesus is lying in Matthew 25 or your belief system is not Scriptural. Your call.
I've posted this before, but I leave it to everybody to judge for themselves how "unclear" and impossible to understand Matthew 25:31-46 is:
31 But when the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit on the throne of his glory:
32 and before him shall be gathered all the nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats;
33 and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in;
36 naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, and fed thee? or athirst, and gave thee drink?
38 And when saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 And when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it unto one of these my brethren, even these least, ye did it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink;
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not unto one of these least, ye did it not unto me.
46 And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life
Yup, there's all kinds of ambiguity there, isn't there, Coletti?
Originally posted by no1marauderOk. Explain it. Your assertion is worthless.
I've posted this before, but I leave it to everybody to judge for themselves how "unclear" and impossible to understand Matthew 25:31-46 is:
31 But when the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit on the throne of his glory:
32 and before him shall be gathered all the nations: an ...[text shortened]... to eternal life
Yup, there's all kinds of ambiguity there, isn't there, Coletti?
Originally posted by ColettiMy interpretion? The plain language says you will be judged on Judgement Day on how you treated your fellow man. Period. The Westminister Statement of Faith won't mean jack. Either be a Christian or not, Coletti.
Ok. Explain it. Your assertion is worthless. Prove your point. Show how clear it is without making any guesses or references to OT or other books of the Bible.
Originally posted by no1marauderNever said they were worthless. But what you quoted is meaningless in itself. You are only guessing what it mean. Your best tactic is to insult me and question my Christianity. It's the only argument you have left.
Are the words of Jesus "worthless", Coletti?
Originally posted by ColettiYour best tactic is to ignore the words of the Gospels; I posted the passage above. It's not vague or hard to understand, it says how you will be judged on Judgement Day will be based on how you treated your fellow man. There is no mention of faith or anything else. Those are Jesus' words if you believe in Scripture; so do you either A) Reject Jesus' words or B) Assert Scripture is wrong?
Never said they were worthless. But what you quoted is meaningless in itself. You are only guessing what it mean. Your best tactic is to insult me and question my Christianity. It's the only argument you have left.
EDIT: What is the difference between saying Jesus' words are "worthless" or "meaningless", Coletti?
Originally posted by no1marauderNo1, You can not say from the text
Your best tactic is to ignore the words of the Gospels; I posted the passage above. It's not vague or hard to understand, it says how you will be judged on Judgement Day will be based on how you treated your fellow man. There is no mention of faith or anything else. Those are Jesus' words if you believe in Scripture; so do you either A) Reject ...[text shortened]... at is the difference between saying Jesus' words are "worthless" or "meaningless", Coletti?
1. Who is gathering the people
2. Who the people are
2. Who is doing the judging
3. When this is going to happen
4. Why they are being judged
So why should I accept anything you say about these verses. You can not justify your interpretation.
Originally posted by Coletti1. Who is gathering the people
No1, You can not say from the text
1. Who is gathering the people
2. Who the people are
2. Who is doing the judging
3. When this is going to happen
4. Why they are being judged
So why should I accept anything you say about these verses. You can not justify your interpretation.
The Son of Man i.e. Jesus.
2. Who the people are
ALL nations i.e. everybody there's not another Judgement Day next week.
3. Who is doing the judging
Who's on the throne? God = Jesus.
4. When this is going to happen
When God decides; do you want a calender date to verify that at some point God will decide who goes to salvation and who doesn't?
5. Why they are being judged
What part of your religion is unclear to you? They are being judged to decided who gets salvation and who doesn't.
At least I have an interpretion; you prefer to ignore the passage because it doesn't fit with your non-Scriptural ideas. "Christian", Coletti?
Originally posted by ColettiI have the same complaint as no1 does..The highest authority on Christs message, is Christ Himself. To suppose that He isn't is to assume He didn't know how to express Himself.
It only appear clear because you have some prior knowledge or you are making assumptions. If you handed this text to someone who had no familiarity or knowledge of Scripture, then he would have no clue what it meant. That is because the text by itself does not give us the information we need to interpret it's meaning.
We need other references in Scrip ...[text shortened]... ources I claim are not only reliable - but necessary for interpreting the words of Christ.
Since the people that we are talking to, profess to being Christians , we ought not have to lay a scriptural foundation for them.
It's either God's words or it isn't .
Originally posted by no1marauderMerely guesses. Nothing in the text leads to your answers. You must either agree that you are guessing, or show support for your answers using other scripture. For instance - how do you know the Son of Man is Jesus? Not from the text quoted. You can take many parts of the Bible and asset whatever you feel like.
1. Who is gathering the people
The Son of Man i.e. Jesus.
2. Who the people are
ALL nations i.e. everybody there's not another Judgement Day next week.
3. Who is doing the judging
Who's on the throne? God = Jesus.
4. When this is going to happen
When God decides; do you want a calender date to verify that a ...[text shortened]... assage because it doesn't fit with your non-Scriptural ideas. "Christian", Coletti?
Originally posted by frogstompIt is God's word. But no1 can only guess what it means because he insist that he can take it out of context and ignore the rest of the Bible. Jesus said many things that require knowledge of the OT and help from other books of the Bible to understand. The Christian view of Scripture is not just that the words of Christ count, but that the Bible itself is the Word and Christ is the Word and you can not separate Christ and the rest of the Bible.
I have the same complaint as no1 does..The highest authority on Christs message, is Christ Himself. To suppose that He isn't is to assume He didn't know how to express Himself.
Since the people that we are talking to, profess to being Christians , we ought not have to lay a scriptural foundation for them.
It's either God's words or it isn't .
No1 is trying to make establish a point of doctrine using poor reasoning.
Originally posted by ColettiThat's sheer nonsense. Nothing in the bible takes precedence over Christ's words. and those passages need no outside reference to be understood.
It is God's word. But no1 can only guess what it means because he insist that he can take it out of context and ignore the rest of the Bible. Jesus said many things that require knowledge of the OT and help from other books of the Bible ...[text shortened]... trying to make establish a point of doctrine using poor reasoning.
That already IS a point of doctrine. Your argument seems more that you think Christ used poor reasoning.
The only valid Christian view belongs to Christ Himself, any other view is anti-Christ.
Originally posted by frogstompThen lets see you explain it using only the text quoted. Your interpetation will be just as baseless as No1's.
That's sheer nonsense. Nothing in the bible takes precedence over Christ's words. and those passages need no outside reference to be understood.
That already IS a point of doctrine. Your argument seems more that you think Christ used poor reasoning.