How can a Good God send people to hell?

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
this isnt algebra

Why not?

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
Stating that God arranged matters thus does is not the same as stating a moral reason for why he arranged matter thus.

Please make an effort to think of a moral reason God might have had for making it impossible for a soul to repent after death.

Eternity is timeless. There is no time in eternity to repent. When we die our souls leave our body, and in that very condition that it is in you will be judged.

I suggest you take a look at this website: www.insightofgod.com

(I would suggest you listen to the Mary Baxter one)

Originally posted by dj2becker
Eternity is timeless. There is no time in eternity to repent. When we die our souls leave our body, and in that very condition that it is in you will be judged.

I suggest you take a look at this website: www.insightofgod.com

You still haven't answered my question. Why are you being so deliberately uncooperative?

Also, eternity is not timeless. To the contrary: it consists of everlasting time. Hence, there is infinite time in eternity to repent.

Note that, if eternity were really timeless, nothing would happen, because things happen over time.

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
Yes it does. The point holds for all non-nonsensical X, Y, and Z.

If you don't think so, give me one counterexample of a person forgiving someone for doing something and then going on to punish them for doing something.

Anybody who claims that this is possible is similarly not familiar with the everyday meaning of the words "forgive" and "punish".

A person has to accept the forgiveness in order to escape the punishment.

Likewise God will forgive you if you accept his forgiveness, but punish you if you reject his forgiveness.

I don't see what is so difficult to understand about this.

Originally posted by dj2becker
A person has to accept the forgiveness in order to escape the punishment.

Likewise God will forgive you if you accept his forgiveness, but punish you if you reject his forgiveness.

I don't see what is so difficult to understand about this.

Who were your mentors and inspirations concerning your faith? I'm curious.

Originally posted by dj2becker
A person has to accept the forgiveness in order to escape the punishment.

Likewise God will forgive you if you accept his forgiveness, but punish you if you reject his forgiveness.

I don't see what is so difficult to understand about this.

That's very odd behavior on God's part.

If person A forgives person B for doing something wrong, person B don't need to accept that foregiveness in order for person A not to punish them. In virtue of the fact that person A has forgiven them, person A will not punish person B. Person B's acceptance is neither here nor there.

I really think you fundamentally misunderstand the elementary idea of forgiveness. It is conceptually impossible for a person A who forgives person B for doing X to then punish person B for doing X.

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
You still haven't answered my question. Why are you being so deliberately uncooperative?

Also, eternity is not timeless. To the contrary: it consists of everlasting time. Hence, there is infinite time in eternity to repent.

Note that, if eternity were really timeless, nothing would happen, because things happen over time.

You still haven't answered my question. Why are you being so deliberately uncooperative?

I thought I did as best I could. Did I miss something?

Also, eternity is not timeless. To the contrary: it consists of everlasting time. Hence, there is infinite time in eternity to repent.

I believe that time in eternity is totally different to the concept of time that we hold at present. Time is a 'finite' concept, whereas eternity deals with the 'infinite'. I beleive that as soon as a person dies, their souls leave their body and 'time' as we know it in earth ceases, and a totally new concept of 'time' emerges which has directly linked with eternity, in which the condition of the soul cannot change. I believe the reason for this is because our souls are shaped on earth to become as they will be forever during eternity. And thus after death it is impossible for the condition of the soul to change.

Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]You still haven't answered my question. Why are you being so deliberately uncooperative?

I thought I did as best I could. Did I miss something?

Also, eternity is not timeless. To the contrary: it consists of everlasting time. Hence, there is infinite time in eternity to repent.

I believe that time in eternity is totally different to ...[text shortened]... ternity. And thus after death it is impossible for the condition of the soul to change.[/b]

Which, if either, of these statements, do you regard as true:

A: Is God punishing people, by putting them in hell against their will?

(T/F)

B: Are people punishing themselves, by putting themselves voluntarily in hell?

(T/F)

Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]You still haven't answered my question. Why are you being so deliberately uncooperative?

I thought I did as best I could. Did I miss something?

Also, eternity is not timeless. To the contrary: it consists of everlasting time. Hence, there is infinite time in eternity to repent.

I believe that time in eternity is totally different to ...[text shortened]... ternity. And thus after death it is impossible for the condition of the soul to change.[/b]

Why do you believe in this barely coherent notion of time? Because you like to believe in it, or because there is some strong reason to?

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
That's very odd behavior on God's part.

If person A forgives person B for doing something wrong, person B don't need to accept that foregiveness in order for person A not to punish them. In virtue of the fact that person A has forgiven them, person A will not punish person B. Person B's acceptance is neither here nor there.

I really think you fun ...[text shortened]... ssible for a person A who forgives person B for doing X to then punish person B for doing X.

I think you have the wrong end of the stick here...

Please define your terms clearly, so that I can understand what you mean, e.g. X=God; Y=Christ; Z= Mankind.

Originally posted by dj2becker
I think you have the wrong end of the stick here...

Please define your terms clearly, so that I can understand what you mean, e.g. X=God; Y=Christ; Z= Mankind.

There is nothing vague or obscure about the terms I am using. This is exasperating.

Suppose a thief steals money from me. I get angry. However, after a while, I cool down. I decide not to press charges, even though I could, and to forgive the thief instead, just because I am a nice guy, who believes that forgiveness is a good thing.

Having forgiven the thief, I now come across him one day. I proceed punish him for his transgression by doing something equally nasty to him.

What is wrong with this story?

Isn't it blindingly obvious to a bright chimpanzee that it is inconsistent of me to punish the thief having forgiven him? Doesn't it look like I haven't really forgiven him?

If you don't think so, just ask 99 other people to confirm that you are the 1 in a 100 who thinks otherwise!

Originally posted by dj2becker
I think you have the wrong end of the stick here...

Please define your terms clearly, so that I can understand what you mean, e.g. X=God; Y=Christ; Z= Mankind.

Quote Pawnokeyhole: "I don't think X can forgive Y for doing Z and then punish Y for doing Z." I don't know what's so hard to understand about this. Obviously, X and Y are intelligent life forms, and Z is an act which in X's eyes is wrong. In case of God sending people to hell, X is God, Y is a person, and Z is a sin.

Originally posted by Nordlys
Quote Pawnokeyhole: "I don't think X can forgive Y for doing Z and then punish Y for doing Z." I don't know what's so hard to understand about this. Obviously, X and Y are intelligent life forms, and Z is an act which in X's eyes is wrong. In case of God sending people to hell, X is God, Y is a person, and Z is a sin.

You worked all that complex reasoning out on your own?

Give yourself a gold star! 😉

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
You worked all that complex reasoning out on your own?

Give yourself a gold star! 😉

I already have one. With wings, even! 😉

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
Which, if either, of these statements, do you regard as true:

A: Is God punishing people, by putting them in hell against their will?

(T/F)

B: Are people punishing themselves, by putting themselves voluntarily in hell?

(T/F)

False on both counts. I think it is a lot more complicated than that.

I would suggest the following Biblical perspective:

1. God is Just, Holy, Righteous.
2. Therefore it follows that God will punish sin.
3. But God is also love.
4. Therefore it follows that God payed the price for man to be able to be justifed before Him and forgiven of their sin.
5. Man therefore has two choices: Either accept God's way of salvation and justification, or reject God's way of salvation and justification.
6. Accepting God's way means God forgives you of your sin.
7. Rejecting God's way means God punishes for your unforgiven sin.