08 May 06
Originally posted by StarrmanIt's utterly bonkers , completely off the wall , utterly shocking , unbelievably revolutionary , totally topsy turvey, ...but would you really expect anything else from God? Would you really expect cress sandwiches and ice tea?
As long as you remember that your view is bonkers, I will happily remember that it is as well.
08 May 06
3 edits
Originally posted by knightmeisterInsofar as we can both use and understand the relevant words in conversation with each other, then for me it's the same. It may be when you speak of "loving God" you are in some sense using a different language from me (when I speak of loving my girlfriend, for example); in the same way, someone who has taken LSD might be speaking a different language when he says he experiences the greenness of a tree in in a way I cannot understand, and gets angry when I disagree.
Maybe it does matter, maybe it doesn't , but do you agree it's not the same? You didn't say.....
(PS- It did matter to Gandhi and M L King , it was instrumental in what they did)
Is his language valuable?
08 May 06
Originally posted by rwingettDo you really think that I didn't know how my post sounded as I was writing it? I find this vision as shocking as anyone but I'm not going to indulge in 'false' humility and pretend that this is not the Christian vision (or something like it). If I was incongruent about this then that would really be arrogant. Infact the vision I've put forward is the opposite of arrogance as I'm talking about a time when humility will triumph over arrogance , love will conquer over hate and destruction. It's the end of arrogance! Do you not like this vision? Would you prefer that might wins over right? Arrogance implies I have made a pompous claim for myself and yet all I have done is said what God will do. By the way....what's your vision?.......survival of the fittest? Justice never put right?
Yeah, so much for for quiet, humble and gentle.
08 May 06
Originally posted by dottewellIn the Christian vision 'love' is the very power behind the whole of existence. So when one acts in a loving way one is tapping into the very fabric of creation. The implications of this are that it would make you consider different courses of action. One might decide that to risk being killed in preference to killing (ref Gandhi) is worth it because love transcends death. If one believes love is just an illusionary feeling this becomes a far less likely course of action and self preservation takes over (ref- all of history). Christianity is supposed to be bonkers because it challenges the 'sanity' of this world from beyond this world. The moment it stops being shocking it's dead.
Insofar as we can both use and understand the relevant words in conversation with each other, then for me it's the same. It may be when you speak of "loving God" you are in some sense using a different language from me (when I speak of loving my girlfriend, for example); in the same way, someone who has taken LSD might be speaking a different language when ...[text shortened]... in in a way I cannot understand, and gets angry when I disagree.
Is his language valuable?
08 May 06
Originally posted by knightmeisterWhat makes you think atheists see love as an "illusionary feeling"? I know my brother would die for his children, for example. Is that kind of love valueless?
In the Christian vision 'love' is the very power behind the whole of existence. So when one acts in a loving way one is tapping into the very fabric of creation. The implications of this are that it would make you consider different courses of action. One might decide that to risk being killed in preference to killing (ref Gandhi) is worth it because l ...[text shortened]... sanity' of this world from beyond this world. The moment it stops being shocking it's dead.
You need to be clear on whether you are saying the meaning of words like "love" are different for the Christian and the atheist.
08 May 06
Originally posted by knightmeisterYou are basically claiming your understanding of "love" to be superior. This is something you could not possibly know.
Do you really think that I didn't know how my post sounded as I was writing it? I find this vision as shocking as anyone but I'm not going to indulge in 'false' humility and pretend that this is not the Christian vision (or something like it). If I was incongruent about this then that would really be arrogant. Infact the vision I've put forward is the opposite of arrogance
While I am certainly glad for you in that you experience such euphoria, your "vision" as it has been presented is absolutely arrogant.
-JC
08 May 06
1 edit
Originally posted by knightmeisterMakes for great science/fantasy fiction, but honestly, how would you, a mere mortal, a little pissant human being in the great sea of life, know what to expect from an omnipotent being? You can't even confirm such a being exists.
It's utterly bonkers , completely off the wall , utterly shocking , unbelievably revolutionary , totally topsy turvey, ...but would you really expect anything else from God? Would you really expect cress sandwiches and ice tea?
09 May 06
Originally posted by knightmeisterStop it KM. We both know that you think that the atheist "love" and "meaning" are inferior. You said as much in your initial post.
So do you mean the same thing when you talk of love and meaning? I'm just wondering. It doesn't mean that Atheist love and meaning are inferior neccesarily , it's just not the same. Or do you share this vision?
Why do you think it's inferior? Do you like religion because it allows you to justify yourself, against the feelings of inadequacy and insecurity you harbour? Love and meaning are both human characteristics, to try and ignore that is one of the tactics used during wars. Your adverseries just become the "hun" or the "gooks" or "wogs", it doesn't matter - they're not REAL people, not as good as US. This attempt at debasing the very things that makes humans human is the typical Christian battleground (at least in the last couple of hundred years). At least the Japanese Samurai showed some decorum, realising the honour of their enemies.
