Originally posted by FMFAccording to the doctrine Grampy Bobby is proposing, yes. The doctrine/dogma of eternal suffering is exactly what you describe and in fact more, because once you died in unbelief you would be joining your wife in the eternal fire of burning flesh.
Again tell me what you think, from your understanding of Grampy Bobby's "unbelievers" suffering in "eternal excruciating agony" thing.
If my wife ~ after a lifetime of Christian belief and deeds ~ became an "unbeliever" while losing a battle with terminal cancer, would I ~ outliving her ~ have to accept every moment of my remaining days that she was not dead ...[text shortened]... nal excruciating agony" ~ and that this was "Justice and Righteousness a.k.a. Divine Integrity"?
However it will be very crowded so there is no guarantee you would get adjoining flame pits.
Originally posted by divegeesterThe most fundamental of all biblical teaching: an individual's eternal salvation by faith alone in Christ alone you ignore? It's the only biblical truth unbelievers are able to understand. Do you believe in the Person and Work of Jesus Christ? If "yes", let's wait for Suzi to weigh in as agreed; if not and you're an unbeliever the topic of Annihilation is meaningless.
Why don't you focus on justifying why you think those who don't accept Christ will be burned in an incinerator for eternity, instead of trolling, deflecting and attention seeking?
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyStop trying to play JW games. I'm fed up with this thread and with you; you are just desperately trying to keep this rubbish thread alive. Your unintelligent procrastination responses betray you.
The most fundamental of all biblical teaching: an individual's eternal salvation by faith alone in Christ alone you ignore? It's the only biblical truth unbelievers are able to understand. Do you believe in the Person and Work of Jesus Christ? If "yes", let's wait for Suzi to weigh in as agreed; if not and you're an unbeliever the topic of Annihilation is meaningless.
I'm out. Again.
Originally posted by divegeesteradiós, be careful not to slam the door on the way out!
Stop trying to play JW games. I'm fed up with this thread and with you; you are just desperately trying to keep this rubbish thread alive. Your unintelligent procrastination responses betray you.
I'm out. Again.
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby Thread 158676 (Page 3)
What is Truth?
The Offensive Nature of Truth:
"When the concept of truth is maligned, it usually for one or more of the following reasons:
One common complaint against anyone claiming to have absolute truth in matters of faith and religion is that such a stance is “narrow-minded.” However, the critic fails to understand that, by nature, truth is narrow. Is a math teacher narrow-minded for holding to the belief that 2 + 2 only equals 4?
Another objection to truth is that it is arrogant to claim that someone is right and another person is wrong. However, returning to the above example with mathematics, is it arrogant for a math teacher to insist on only one right answer to an arithmetic problem? Or is it arrogant for a locksmith to state that only one key will open a locked door?
A third charge against those holding to absolute truth in matters of faith and religion is that such a position excludes people, rather than being inclusive. But such a complaint fails to understand that truth, by nature, excludes its opposite. All answers other than 4 are excluded from the reality of what 2 + 2 truly equals.
Yet another protest against truth is that it is offensive and divisive to claim one has the truth. Instead, the critic argues, all that matters is sincerity. The problem with this position is that truth is immune to sincerity, belief, and desire. It doesn’t matter how much one sincerely believes a wrong key will fit a door; the key still won’t go in and the lock won’t be opened. Truth is also unaffected by sincerity. Someone who picks up a bottle of poison and sincerely believes it is lemonade will still suffer the unfortunate effects of the poison. Finally, truth is impervious to desire. A person may strongly desire that their car has not run out of gas, but if the gauge says the tank is empty and the car will not run any farther, then no desire in the world will miraculously cause the car to keep going..." (Part 3 of 4)
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyTruth is also unaffected by sincerity. Someone who picks up a bottle of poison and sincerely believes it is lemonade will still suffer the unfortunate effects of the poison.
Someone who reads some ancient texts and sincerely believes that these texts mean they will have eternal life will still, nevertheless, die and their life will be finite ~ the truth is unaffected by sincerity, as you yourself say.
Truth is impervious to desire. A person may strongly desire that their car has not run out of gas, but if the gauge says the tank is empty and the car will not run any farther, then no desire in the world will miraculously cause the car to keep going..."
A person may strongly desire that they will have eternal life and their existence will never end, but when they get to the end of their lives [and life's 'fuel gauge says the tank is empty' and our lives 'will not run any farther'] then no desire in the world, Grampy Bobby, will miraculously cause you to have eternal life ~ ~ the truth is unaffected by desire, as you yourself say.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." (John 3:36)
"He who hears My word and believes Him who sent me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment but has passed out of death into life." (John 5:24)
"I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who believes in Me shall never die." (John 11:25-26a)
"And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:15)
"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death." (Romans 8:1-2)
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyMore quotations to hide behind. There is no mistaking your apparent sincerity regarding your desire to be immortal.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." (John 3:36)
"He who hears My word and ...[text shortened]... pirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death." (Romans 8:1-2)
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYou should have contributed here Thread 158602 and explained how you yourself avoid the phenomenon discussed there, assuming you do. Maybe you don't.
Another objection to truth is that it is arrogant to claim that someone is right and another person is wrong. However, returning to the above example with mathematics, is it arrogant for a math teacher to insist on only one right answer to an arithmetic problem? Or is it arrogant for a locksmith to state that only one key will open a locked door? [/b]
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI am not suggesting that you be mean to him by attacking his persona, even if that is what you yourself endeavour to do to countless other posters on thread after thread. I am more interested in whether you are able to rebut the 'eternal torture' version of Christianity he is espousing here.
I do not profess the doctrine but that is no reason to be mean to GB by attacking his persona.