- Joined
- 31 May 06
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26 Jul 13
Originally posted by empovsunActually from what you are saying it sounds highly unlikely that the content is in
nevermind
if you don't like the way the information is being presented then fine. cry me a river. as for the content, it is worth it. i try to look past methodology and go straight for the content
any way worth it.
But the style does matter.
If you want people to listen to you, or read what you write, you need to do it in a
style that makes listening or reading easy and comfortable and engaging.
If you want me to spend my (to me) valuable spare time watching a video then
you need to make the video engaging to watch and listen to.
If you have important information you want to convey then you have to get to it.
An angry fidgety badly edited rant doesn't cut it.
I would need a really good reason to sit through it.
And you have not come close to giving me one.
In fact everything you have said so far leads me to strongly suspect that its nearly
half an hour of someone railing against a strawman version of atheism and of atheists.
If you want people to listen then the style matters as well as the content.
If you want to see how it's done go check out Jay Smooth
http://vimeo.com/44544403
It's short, concise, well presented, well thought out, and makes you want to go check
out his other videos. AND the content is good.
26 Jul 13
Originally posted by twhiteheadjust because you believe it is a fact does not make it a fact
I believe it is a fact. What do you see as the difference between facts and beliefs?
So at a minimum you define God as being a 'greater being than yourself' and 'incomprehensible'? I don't expect a comprehensive definition, but without at least some properties being defined, one cannot discuss whether an entity matching the definition exists.
So 'go ...[text shortened]... keep the definition general in order to use the flawed logic I mention above.
while it may be a logical and rational conclusion, it does not necessarily make it empirical fact. facts are truths we can observe and test in controlled environments. beliefs are just thoughts that could be a truth, half-truth, or otherwise variants of possible outcomes
i do not believe that god can be defined properly in this dimension...but we do try, don't we? 🙂
the gift is existence. nothing more, nothing less.
hmmm. the definition of god...how about we say that god is what created us? that should keep things simple, since you want me to simplify things.
it is possible that aliens created us, yes. do i believe it? not really, but i do play with the idea since it is amusing to do so. oh, and i believe in aliens, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they created us either
lol and the santa thing was in jest. a lil devils advocate there heh. i figured you guys were tired of using that talking point for like the millionth time 😀
26 Jul 13
Originally posted by googlefudgesure, ill check him out. does he make good points about the atheist community - positive and negative?
If you want to see how it's done go check out Jay Smooth
http://vimeo.com/44544403
oh, it's about trolling. yea thanks google
i hope you are not suggesting that i'm trolling 😛
26 Jul 13
Originally posted by empovsunNor does it make it not a fact. For some reason you wanted me to state that what I believe was not a fact.
just because you believe it is a fact does not make it a fact
while it may be a logical and rational conclusion, it does not necessarily make it empirical fact. facts are truths we can observe and test in controlled environments. beliefs are just thoughts that could be a truth, half-truth, or otherwise variants of possible outcomes
Well I originally made two statements. I believe the first is an empirical fact by your definition. The second, may be closer personal opinion, or empirical fact when applied to me.
i do not believe that god can be defined properly in this dimension...but we do try, don't we? 🙂
Do you mean he cannot be defined completely, or do you mean that anything you say about him may be wrong?
the gift is existence. nothing more, nothing less.
So part of the definition of God is that he created existence, or he created us? Are you sure you said that properly in this dimension, or are you just trying?
hmmm. the definition of god...how about we say that god is what created us? that should keep things simple, since you want me to simplify things.
Well, that is too broad for me. Are we talking humans, life, or the universe? If we got here by evolution, then is 'mother nature' God by your definition? If so, God exists.
lol and the santa thing was in jest. a lil devils advocate there heh. i figured you guys were tired of using that talking point for like the millionth time 😀
Once again, you avoid the question. You said you were rational, but you seem remarkably reluctant to deal with this point rationally.
26 Jul 13
Originally posted by twhiteheadA fact must be indesputably true, otherwise it is a belief.
Nor does it make it not a fact. For some reason you wanted me to state that what I believe was not a fact.
[b]while it may be a logical and rational conclusion, it does not necessarily make it empirical fact. facts are truths we can observe and test in controlled environments. beliefs are just thoughts that could be a truth, half-truth, or otherwise va ...[text shortened]... said you were rational, but you seem remarkably reluctant to deal with this point rationally.
The Instructor
27 Jul 13
Originally posted by twhiteheadall i want is an honest discussion of ideas, and nothing more
Nor does it make it not a fact. For some reason you wanted me to state that what I believe was not a fact.
[b]while it may be a logical and rational conclusion, it does not necessarily make it empirical fact. facts are truths we can observe and test in controlled environments. beliefs are just thoughts that could be a truth, half-truth, or otherwise va ...[text shortened]... said you were rational, but you seem remarkably reluctant to deal with this point rationally.
the only thing that i wanted you to restate (as you did in the atheist is a belief system thread) that positive atheism aka strong atheism is a belief (obviously not a belief system). that's all; scouts honor!
"Do you mean he cannot be defined completely, or do you mean that anything you say about him may be wrong?"
well said - both, actually! also, "him"? i think the theists are rubbing off on you!
"So part of the definition of God is that he created existence, or he created us?"
i meant just us earthlings, for simplicities sake.
it has been a while since i have debated an atheist, and forgot that many of you guys are so serious! i didn't avoid the question, i was admitting that i do not believe in santa, but in a cheeky way. it's just so tiresome going through the old notions and talking points. really, i've heard the santa argument since i was a teenager. get's old, bro 😛
27 Jul 13
Originally posted by empovsunMany atheists seem to think Santa has something to do with God. So to them, if Santa does not exit, then that means God does not exist either. 😀
all i want is an honest discussion of ideas, and nothing more
the only thing that i wanted you to restate (as you did in the atheist is a belief system thread) that positive atheism aka strong atheism is a belief (obviously not a belief system). that's all; scouts honor!
"Do you mean he cannot be defined completely, or do you mean that anything you say ...[text shortened]... ints. really, i've heard the santa argument since i was a teenager. get's old, bro 😛
The Instructor
27 Jul 13
Originally posted by empovsunWell then I did state it in the other thread. The question is, what conclusions do you draw from that? My stating something is a belief, doesn't make it 'just a belief' nor does it make it 'not a fact'. I think you want to use my stating something is a belief to claim that your beliefs are equally valid. They are not.
all i want is an honest discussion of ideas, and nothing more
the only thing that i wanted you to restate (as you did in the atheist is a belief system thread) that positive atheism aka strong atheism is a belief (obviously not a belief system). that's all; scouts honor!
well said - both, actually! also, "him"? i think the theists are rubbing off on you!
The problem with being unable to define something, is that discussion of that something becomes meaningless.
i meant just us earthlings, for simplicities sake.
So if abiogenesis took place, then 'mother nature' is God?
it has been a while since i have debated an atheist, and forgot that many of you guys are so serious! i didn't avoid the question, i was admitting that i do not believe in santa, but in a cheeky way. it's just so tiresome going through the old notions and talking points. really, i've heard the santa argument since i was a teenager. get's old, bro 😛
It may get old, but it is still valid. So, you are a strong asantarist. Why is that when you criticise other people for being strong atheists? What is different?
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27 Jul 13
Originally posted by empovsunNo I wasn't suggesting you were trolling.
sure, ill check him out. does he make good points about the atheist community - positive and negative?
oh, it's about trolling. yea thanks google
i hope you are not suggesting that i'm trolling 😛
It was just a random pick of his videos as a demonstration of the difference
the quality and style of presentation can make.