If you don’t believe

Originally posted by @romans1009
FWIW, I don’t think anyone, including Jesus, thinks His commands are obligatory. Humans have free will and can choose to follow them or not.

They only seem obligatory if one believes in an afterlife and that gaining salvation is tied to following Jesus’ commands.

In the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry, He repeatedly emphasizes the importance of His word.

Understanding His word.
Not just understanding His word, but believing His word.
Not just believing His word, but following His word.
Not just following His word, but keeping His word.
Not just keeping His word, but abiding in His word.

Or if you want to look at it the other way around:
To abide in His word, one must keep His word.
To keep His word, one must follow His word.
To follow His word, one must believe His word.
To believe His word, one must understand His word.

If one understands His word, one WILL believe His word.
If one believes His word, one WILL follow His word.
If one follows His word, one WILL keep His word
If one keeps His word, one WILL abide in his word.

Those who keep and abide in the word of Jesus, truly "believe in" Jesus.

Those who do not keep and abide in the word of Jesus, do not truly "believe in" Jesus - no matter how much they may claim otherwise. Neither do they understand nor even hear.

John 12 
46 “I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness. 
50 “I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.” 
48 “He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 
49 “For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear".

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Try this. How do you determine if anything is true?

For me, conclusive evidence. You?

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
For me, conclusive evidence. You?

There you go.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
There you go.

Splendid.

Care to share it?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If you don’t believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son, if you don’t believe in the resurrection and that He conquering death, that He’s coming back again, why would you follow His teachings? 🙄

I’m sure thinkofone will have a bunch of stuff to post, none of which directly addresses this OP

Originally posted by @thinkofone
In the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry, He repeatedly emphasizes the importance of His word.

Understanding His word.
Not just understanding His word, but believing His word.
Not just believing His word, but following His word.
Not just following His word, but keeping His word.
Not just keeping His word, but abiding in His word.
...[text shortened]... a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear".

Yes, but how does one, according to the Bible, keep Jesus’ Word? By his or her own effort? Or by the power of God’s indwelling Holy Spirit?

And when one stumbles after accepting Christ, is he or she forgiven, in your view?

I’m not speaking of willfully sinning because that is an indication one did not sincerely accept Christ into his or heart and God’s Holy Spirit has not indwelt them to change their heart.

I’m speaking of occasional, infrequent sinning followed by genuine remorse afterward.

Do you think one has to lead a perfect and sinless life after accepting Christ? Remember that, according to Christ, being angry with someone is a sin and looking on a woman with lust in your heart is a sin, in addition to the Old Testament sins of bearing false witness (lying) and coveting.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Splendid.

Care to share it?

Share what? Surely you don't expect me to walk through the entirety of His teachings here. Either you find it "reasonably sound", "reasonably coherent" as well as "remarkably deep" and "quite profound" or you don't. What's the issue of my getting to "true" from the above list?

One thing I noticed in your prior post is that in the first paragraph you had dropped the word "sound" from what I had written. By the second paragraph you had also dropped the word "deep" from what I had written.

As such, by then you were down to "How though do you go from this to: 'As such, by and large, I find the words attributed to Jesus while He walked the Earth to be 'true'" AND
"Why does them being 'coherent and profound' make them true? ".

Had you so badly tripped over your own feet that you'd lost sight of what I had actually written?

Originally posted by @romans1009
Yes, but how does one, according to the Bible, keep Jesus’ Word? By his or her own effort? Or by the power of God’s indwelling Holy Spirit?

And when one stumbles after accepting Christ, is he or she forgiven, in your view?

I’m not speaking of willfully sinning because that is an indication one did not sincerely accept Christ into his or heart and G ...[text shortened]... t is a sin, in addition to the Old Testament sins of bearing false witness (lying) and coveting.

Much of what you've posted is conceptually very different from the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.

For example where in the gospel preached by Jesus did he expound upon, "occasional, infrequent sinning followed by genuine remorse afterward"?

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Share what? Surely you don't expect me to walk through the entirety of His teachings here. Either you find it "reasonably sound", "reasonably coherent" as well as "remarkably deep" and "quite profound" or you don't. What's the issue of my getting to "true" from the above list?

One thing I noticed in your prior post is that in the first paragraph you h ...[text shortened]... ad you so badly tripped over your own feet that you'd lost sight of what I had actually written?

Semantics will give you ulcers sir. You pick over the bones of a sentence with a magnifying glass and ignore the flesh.

You spoke of truth. I'm asking simply on what you base it. Yes I know, you find his words profound, sound, coherent, deep etc etc. How does that help us determine whether or not the words were actually said by him?

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Share what? Surely you don't expect me to walk through the entirety of His teachings here. Either you find it "reasonably sound", "reasonably coherent" as well as "remarkably deep" and "quite profound" or you don't. What's the issue of my getting to "true" from the above list?

One thing I noticed in your prior post is that in the first paragraph you h ...[text shortened]... ad you so badly tripped over your own feet that you'd lost sight of what I had actually written?

What is the name of your god?

As a proponent of the teachings of Jesus...when he said he was sent by God, do you think he was correct?

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Semantics will give you ulcers sir. You pick over the bones of a sentence with a magnifying glass and ignore the flesh.

You spoke of truth. I'm asking simply on what you base it. Yes I know, you find his words profound, sound, coherent, deep etc etc. How does that help us determine whether or not the words were actually said by him?

Like "semantics" have anything to do with what I wrote.

You spoke of truth. I'm asking simply on what you base it. Yes I know, you find his words profound, sound, coherent, deep etc etc.

Good to see you understand that part now.

How does that help us determine whether or not the words were actually said by him?

If that's what you were going for, you seriously botched it. Where did you ask anything of the kind in the following;

I get that you find the words of Jesus coherent, deep and profound. Even as an atheist, I do as well. How though do you go from this to: 'As such, by and large, I find the words attributed to Jesus while He walked the Earth to be "true".

Why does them being 'coherent and profound' make them true? - I find the words of Gandalf coherent and profound but don't as a consequence attribute 'truth' to them.

If you remain true to form, you'll refuse to admit that you botched that part as well.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Like "semantics" have anything to do with what I wrote.

[b]You spoke of truth. I'm asking simply on what you base it. Yes I know, you find his words profound, sound, coherent, deep etc etc.

Good to see you understand that part now.

How does that help us determine whether or not the words were actually said by him?

If that's what yo ...[text shortened]... [/quote]
If you remain true to form, you'll refuse to admit that you botched that part as well.[/b]

What is the name of your god?

As a proponent of the teachings of Jesus...when he said he was sent by God, do you think he was correct?

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Like "semantics" have anything to do with what I wrote.

[b]You spoke of truth. I'm asking simply on what you base it. Yes I know, you find his words profound, sound, coherent, deep etc etc.

Good to see you understand that part now.

How does that help us determine whether or not the words were actually said by him?

If that's what yo ...[text shortened]... [/quote]
If you remain true to form, you'll refuse to admit that you botched that part as well.[/b]

That really is very silly.

I asked you clearly why you consider the words of Jesus true. This is clearly linked to how you feel able to attribute them to him? I've asked the same thing at least 3 different ways.

It's weird you can't answer that. Really weird.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
That really is very silly.

I asked you clearly why you consider the words of Jesus true. This is clearly linked to how you feel able to attribute them to him? I've asked the same thing at least 3 different ways.

It's weird you can't answer that. Really weird.

You're either remarkably illogical or you are trolling - which is how you started on this forum.

Either way, there doesn't seem to be much point in continuing this discussion.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
You're either remarkably illogical or you are trolling - which is how you started on this forum.

Either way, there doesn't seem to be much point in continuing this discussion.

What is the name of your god?

As a proponent of the teachings of Jesus...when he said he was sent by God, do you think he was correct?