21 Sep 21
@ghost-of-a-duke saidDoesn't this depend on which Law is being referred to? When Jesus said 'not one jot of the Law shall pass away er I return' the Law he meant was the Torah, the Jewish Law with all that that entailed: not wearing clothes woven from two different fabrics, not eating meat and dairy products at the same meal, getting circumcised, and so on and so on. It seems very unlikely that Paul thought that these strictures pertained to gentiles. So, the question arises, which law was Paul thinking ought to apply to gentiles, which law is supposedly written in the hearts of all men (Jews and gentiles alike)?
All gentiles have the law written on their hearts. Paul is saying this is shown by those gentiles who instinctively perform the requirements of the Law. (Those gentiles who don't follow the law are not adhering to their conscience).
Paul is basically saying that ignorance of the law is not a defense as all have the law written on their hearts. (And that this is ev ...[text shortened]... law).
Your position that God is selective on the hearts he writes His law on is not scriptural.
21 Sep 21
@moonbus saidIn the time of Paul the Law of Moses and the commandments of Christ were in effect. The Gentiles who heard neither of these, would obviously have their own law which to keep and it is on these laws they will be judged, according to Paul. All people have a conscience, and all know good from evil and all cultures and all people from Adam to now know how to apply the laws of justice, mercy and compassion. Even though the Law of Moses is complex and detailed both Christ and the Apostles conceded the following truth:
Doesn't this depend on which Law is being referred to? When Jesus said 'not one jot of the Law shall pass away er I return' the Law he meant was the Torah, the Jewish Law with all that that entailed: not wearing clothes woven from two different fabrics, not eating meat and dairy products at the same meal, getting circumcised, and so on and so on. It seems very unlikely that P ...[text shortened]... ply to gentiles, which law is supposedly written in the hearts of all men (Jews and gentiles alike)?
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Galatians 5:14 KJV)
So it is entirely possible for people in all nations whether or not they heard of the God of Israel, or Jesus Christ to fulfil the law {of Moses] and because of their good works and righteousness will be rewarded with eternal life in the Kingdom of God. [Another little fact from the bible which Christians do not like 😀]
Christ drove home this point in some crystal clear language in Matt 25.
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21 Sep 21
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@moonbus
The ritual aspect of the Law of Moses Jesus sometimes went out of His way to deliberately break, to nullify to make a deeper point.
The moral aspect of the Law He heightened and made more penetrating so that without Himself living in us as grace it is impossible to fulfill.
The ritual ordinances, Paul says, were nailed to the cross and taken out of the way.
These ordinances, rituals, ceremonial aspects made a bid division between the Jews who had them from God and the Gentiles who did not.
"For He Himself is our peace, He who has made both one and has broken down the middle wall of partition, the enmity. Abolishing in His flesh the law of the commandments and ordinances, that He might create the two in Himself into one new man, so making peace., and might reconcile both in one Body to God through the cross, having slain the enmity . . . " (Eph. 2:14-16)
"Wiping out the handwriting in ordinances, which was against us, which was contrary to us; and He has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross." (Col. 2:14)
21 Sep 21
@rajk999 saidMatthew 8:4, KJV: "And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them."
In the time of Paul the Law of Moses and the commandments of Christ were in effect. The Gentiles who heard neither of these, would obviously have their own law which to keep and it is on these laws they will be judged, according to Paul. All people have a conscience, and all know good from evil and all cultures and all people from Adam to now know how to apply the laws of ju ...[text shortened]... ristians do not like 😀]
Christ drove home this point in some crystal clear language in Matt 25.
This is just after Jesus has rendered the unclean man spiritually fit to enter the temple. To 'offer the gift that Moses commanded' means to make a sacrifice, a goat or something, according to the Mosaic law. It is THIS, Jesus says, not one jot of which will pass away. I very much doubt that gentiles would have been expected to offer such sacrifices, according to Mosaic law.
Moreover, the Romans understood law to be civic through and through, not divine. So I still see a problem with the contention that the God of the Jews has inscribed His Law in the hearts of all men. Compassion for a Roman looked rather different than it did to a Jew. Compassion, to a Roman, might well mean offering your friend a dagger to kill himself rather than face dishonour. What was justice for a Roman was not always seen to be so by the Jews. For example, a Roman father had the power of life and death over his own children; he could kill them and not be charged with homicide, according to Roman law.
21 Sep 21
@moonbus saidIm not seeing a conflict with Matt 8. The Jews were under the Law of Moses and the Gentiles are not under that law and neither is there any reference in the bible that God intends for Gentiles to keep that law or does he intend to write it in everyone hearts. If there is such a reference let me know.
Matthew 8:4, KJV: "And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them."
This is just after Jesus has rendered the unclean man spiritually fit to enter the temple. To 'offer the gift that Moses commanded' means to make a sacrifice, a goat or something, according to th ...[text shortened]... over his own children; he could kill them and not be charged with homicide, according to Roman law.
Sin only occurs when there is knowledge of the laws., so what a Roman was permitted to do within his law may not be the same as another nation. I get the impression that that is fine with God. Every nation has their own set of laws but it must be enforced humanely with justice and mercy. God does not expect to whole world to operate under the Law of Moses neither the commandments of Christ. This only happens in the Kingdom.
A father killing his son with the blessing of Roman law is not a big deal for God. God is in charge of the soul, the life force and can do with it whatever He likes, including send that soul back to earth in another body greater than the father if the father was wrong. The whole issue is complicated and not as simple as Christians believe... profess faith and that is all.