02 Dec 09
Originally posted by FabianFnasif i claim here that 1+1=2 it would be equally an equally clear point but off topic.
My points stands clear.
Many have heard voices from someone they call god, and start a new religion, a new movement, or a new cult. If the voice of god speaks so differently from ear to ear, then who will ever now which voice from god is the real one?
If people want to challenge detals of my posting, then I'm not deviating.
A friend of mine hear ...[text shortened]... challenge my opinion in the matter - feel free to do so, but, for gods sake, stay within topic!
read my first topic. i asked 3 questions. now see if what you posted has any relevance.
real relevance not a minor one.
this is how the rhp forum threads die. someone proposes a topic and by the third or fourth page nobody remembers what the topic was and discuss about something entirely different. i mostly don't even bother entering topics that i haven't watched from the beginning and/or are more than 30-ish posts long. i didn't expect however this thread to be killed so soon though.
02 Dec 09
Originally posted by ZahlanziAs you can see, I've asked your three questions. I didn't gave you the answer you wanted to have, but I gave you my view of the matter.
if i claim here that 1+1=2 it would be equally an equally clear point but off topic.
read my first topic. i asked 3 questions. now see if what you posted has any relevance.
real relevance not a minor one.
this is how the rhp forum threads die. someone proposes a topic and by the third or fourth page nobody remembers what the topic was and discuss ...[text shortened]... more than 30-ish posts long. i didn't expect however this thread to be killed so soon though.
This is a debate. Adebate is not everyone giving the answers the original poster wanted to have, then it wouldn't be a debate. But if you wanted some specific answers, jut tell what answers you want, and I give them to you right away. I can quote with no effort.
But if you want a living debate, then you should let people answer with their opinions, wanted or not, correct or not. And you have the opportunity to give replies as anyone else. Then we have a debate.
02 Dec 09
Originally posted by FabianFnasyes, now suppose yoda (it's cooler with yoda) is telling you in a dream that the next day you will win the lottery and you do. suppose that after 3 nights, yoda comes to you in a dream and tells you that your mother(suppose she is 80 years old) will get the urge in exactly one year to try snowboarding and win the world championship. Fearing for your mother doing snowboarding, you don't mention this. in exactly one year, your mother is world champion.
Go and seek help. Perhaps get some Mallorol. Seems to hep against voices inside the head. Never happened yet.
having acknowledged (at his request) yoda as your god, what would you now do? if yoda tells you one night that kittens are sacred animals and the next night he tells you that you must kill 100 kitties, will you do it or assume Darth Vader has assumed yoda's dreamform and is trying to tempt you from the path.
02 Dec 09
Originally posted by ZahlanziA hypothetical question, is it not? Then I can answer as hypothetically too.
yes, now suppose yoda (it's cooler with yoda) is telling you in a dream that the next day you will win the lottery and you do. suppose that after 3 nights, yoda comes to you in a dream and tells you that your mother(suppose she is 80 years old) will get the urge in exactly one year to try snowboarding and win the world championship. Fearing for your mother ...[text shortened]... or assume Darth Vader has assumed yoda's dreamform and is trying to tempt you from the path.
I would apply to be an astronaut and go to the moon. If Yda is helping me to that, I'll be happy and read the StarWar trilogy to the end of my life.
The questions you pose are fantasies, will never happen, my grandmother is dead already. I say your question is far off topic.
02 Dec 09
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI don't know about Socrates to that extent I can consider him insane or not. What do you believe?
So you'd assume you were insane.
Socrates spoke about his 'daimon', the inner voice that guided him. A case of insanity?
I have heard about a scitzophreniac (spelling?) who told the interviewer of his deamons inside his head. Is he insane? Or was it the voice of god? Who knows?
02 Dec 09
2 edits
Originally posted by FabianFnasThe questions you pose are fantasies, will never happen, my grandmother is dead already. I say your question is far off topic.
A hypothetical question, is it not? Then I can answer as hypothetically too.
I would apply to be an astronaut and go to the moon. If Yda is helping me to that, I'll be happy and read the StarWar trilogy to the end of my life.
The questions you pose are fantasies, will never happen, my grandmother is dead already. I say your question is far off topic.
you do understand that we are setting here a situation with predefined conditions and debate from there, right?that the "from there on" is important? that if we are to debate every one of the preconditions we would reach the 30th century?
that is regarding your "off topic" claim
regarding your astronaut application: you would presume to question god? yoda in this case. he already gave you a miracle: your 80 year old mother winning the snowboarding championship in exactly one year from when dream yoda said it would happen. now dream yoda is claiming to be a god. and asking you to break the rules he set himself.
your mother winning the championship is just a justification for a precondition to our argument: that you HAVE accepted yoda as your god.
02 Dec 09
1 edit
Originally posted by FabianFnasagain you are missing the point of this conversation. we are not talking about outside persons judging the true/false value of person X's religious phantasies or revelations.
I don't know about Socrates to that extent I can consider him insane or not. What do you believe?
I have heard about a scitzophreniac (spelling?) who told the interviewer of his deamons inside his head. Is he insane? Or was it the voice of god? Who knows?
we are talking about someone having a religious experience, internal, and how he/she should act on it. like abe did. EDIT: and if i may add, someone not doubting that it indeed the religious experience was real and not indigestion or mental illness talking
02 Dec 09
Originally posted by ZahlanziSometimes I get a question like this one: ""Fab, suppose we could fly in the speed of light, would we then see in front of us..." and I have to interrupt him by "Wait, you cannot fly in the speed of light!" "Yes, I know, but if..." "But it's a law of physics that cannot be violated!" "Yes, I know, but if..." and the conversation becomes meaningless.
[b]The questions you pose are fantasies, will never happen, my grandmother is dead already. I say your question is far off topic.
you do understand that we are setting here a situation with predefined conditions and debate from there, right?that the "from there on" is important? that if we are to debate every one of the preconditions we would reach t ...[text shortened]... a justification for a precondition to our argument: that you HAVE accepted yoda as your god.[/b]
You start with a hypothesis that, in my opinion, is a violation of my religious beliefs. How do you think I can answer the question? By lying? By pretending something that cannot be true? As true as flying in the speed of light?
You brought up the 'off topic' thing, not me. Now you get out of topic yourself. How do you like me to continue? Stay off topic or avoid any more off topic-ness?
Did Yoda tell Abe to slaughter his son?
02 Dec 09
Originally posted by ZahlanziAnyone can have any religious beliefs he wishes, I don't mind. But at the very instant he cannot differ Truth with religious opinion, then I must object if it's within topic of the thread.
again you are missing the point of this conversation. we are not talking about outside persons judging the true/false value of person X's religious phantasies or revelations.
we are talking about someone having a religious experience, internal, and how he/she should act on it. like abe did. EDIT: and if i may add, someone not doubting that it indeed the religious experience was real and not indigestion or mental illness talking
If you read my first posting in this thread, on topic, then you realize that - If someone hear voices tht says something like "I'm your god, and now listen, I want you to...", do we really have to belive that this is true? Then scizophrenia is not a psycological decease, it is a religious phenomena.
02 Dec 09
Originally posted by FabianFnaswhat are you doing in this forum?
Sometimes I get a question like this one: ""Fab, suppose we could fly in the speed of light, would we then see in front of us..." and I have to interrupt him by "Wait, you cannot fly in the speed of light!" "Yes, I know, but if..." "But it's a law of physics that cannot be violated!" "Yes, I know, but if..." and the conversation becomes meaningless.
Y ...[text shortened]... topic or avoid any more off topic-ness?
Did Yoda tell Abe to slaughter his son?
and what law does the existance of god violate? or the existance of the flying spaghetti monster? and what would it matter in a debate?
i issued you the preconditions of this debate. i asked you a question. a question that violates nothing. answer it or please stop being a carrobie.
02 Dec 09
Originally posted by FabianFnasi already said yoda will make your 80 year old mother snowboard world champion. and i already told you you accept yoda as your god. and i already told you this is the precondition to this debate, we are not arguing that.
Anyone can have any religious beliefs he wishes, I don't mind. But at the very instant he cannot differ Truth with religious opinion, then I must object if it's within topic of the thread.
If you read my first posting in this thread, on topic, then you realize that - If someone hear voices tht says something like "I'm your god, and now listen, I want y ...[text shortened]... this is true? Then scizophrenia is not a psycological decease, it is a religious phenomena.
geez you are like the kid that joins 10 other kids in playing footbal and then ask if you could touch the ball with your hands and body check other players rugby style.
and why the heck am i still arguing with you about the rules of this debate? why must i argue about the rules of this debate? and topic. this discussion is over. if you want to argue my first topic fine, and i will respond. if you want to continue arguing that you cannot conceive of a discussion where god is assumed to be existent (for the sake of argument) then you are free to be a carrobie. there is no law against that.