Spirituality
08 Jul 18
10 Jul 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @kellyjayYou dont understand.
Actually he is adding to the grace of Jesus Christ not much different than those that used to say Jesus plus circumcision was required to be saved. He adds human efforts even ignoring scripture that makes it abundantly clear it isn’t by works we are saved. This isn’t saying works will not be done.
Good works are not an end in themselves . Engaging with the non-ego in oneself is the path to understanding ones true self.
Through thoughtful , creative and dilligent good works we ground our being . Good works performed with a view to curry favour from the Lord or anyone else are not done with the correct motives.
Those who do good works realize that idle hands are often the devils plaything. That gossip and speculation are the marks of weakness and the firewood for evil . That those who denounce good works are choosing to imagine what doing good works means , rather than simply doing them and following the words of the prophet .
Any clearer?
10 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayJesus said no such thing about addiing to the grace of Jesus Christ. You are simply regurgitating the church doctrine.
Actually he is adding to the grace of Jesus Christ not much different than those that used to say Jesus plus circumcision was required to be saved. He adds human efforts even ignoring scripture that makes it abundantly clear it isn’t by works we are saved. This isn’t saying works will not be done.
You misunderstand what Paul preached about grace and what it means to be saved. You are doing that only because if you read the full explanation from Paul about the difference between 'saved' and 'eternal life', your doctrine falls like a deck of cards.
Your doctrine is nonsense and is the road to damnation.
10 Jul 18
2 edits
Originally posted by @rajk999Actually I don’t have to ignore scripture to make the gospel God has given fit what I have been sharing as you do. Then you ignore scripture when confronted with it, that which doesn’t agree with you.
Jesus said no such thing about addiing to the grace of Jesus Christ. You are simply regurgitating the church doctrine.
You misunderstand what Paul preached about grace and what it means to be saved. You are doing that only because if you read the full explanation from Paul about the difference between 'saved' and 'eternal life', your doctrine falls like a deck of cards.
Your doctrine is nonsense and is the road to damnation.
10 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayNonsense. You twist the words of Paul to make it say way you want it to say.
Actually I don’t have to ignore scripture to make the gospel God has given fit what I have been sharing as you do. Then you ignore scripture when confronted with it, that which doesn’t agree with you.
Eg Paul in Ephesians 2, said that born again Christian saints are SAVED by grace through faith in God. These saints do NOT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE AS YET. They have to live righteously and do good works. Then they will be given eternal life when Jesus returns. Failure to do this means they will NOT INHERIT eternal life. Paul takes 4 chapters in Ephesians to explain this process.
But you Christians want eternal life immediately and do not want to do any good works.
SAVED BY GRACE IS NOT EQUAL TO ETERNAL LIFE.
Like I said your church doctrine is garbage.
10 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjaySure, and so have you. No one said that being fair and rational is easy. Oh wait you do. Stop thinking and just obey, right?
Hmm, do you feel like you have ever been wronged by someone else' right?
10 Jul 18
1 edit
Muslims have no choice. They must submit and bend over, or else. The threat is not merely on you. You jeopordize your family if you do not toe the line given to you. This isn't a theoretical situation, this is a reality confronting entire nations. Christianity is like that too, but a few hundred years of rational thinking put a dent in that plan. Islam will become unimportant. Give it a few more hundreds of years and lots and lots of blood.
10 Jul 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @apathistThese guys dont understand that Pandora's box cant be shut once opened.
Sure, and so have you. No one said that being fair and rational is easy. Oh wait you do. Stop thinking and just obey, right?
They see the neutral ground in life as real when it is an illusion.
They think repetition and mimicking others somehow shows their obedience to the Lord . They regularly fail at the most basic points of Spirituality while being ever eager to denounce all who dont like their pithy excuse for religous thought.
Wont learn from others, always believing that sometime , in some self- righteous future all their imaginings of reality will be confirmed simply because it is theirs.
Who or what is Kelly and co really obeying? I shudder at the thought
10 Jul 18
Originally posted by @karoly-aczelWho is denouncing good works? I don’t believe anyone in this conversation has done that?
You dont understand.
Good works are not an end in themselves . Engaging with the non-ego in oneself is the path to understanding ones true self.
Through thoughtful , creative and dilligent good works we ground our being . Good works performed with a view to curry favour from the Lord or anyone else are not done with the correct motives.
Those wh ...[text shortened]... rks means , rather than simply doing them and following the words of the prophet .
Any clearer?
10 Jul 18
Originally posted by @rajk999So show where I said all of that in the context you just wrote! You merge a lot of things together as it that was how I or others have said things. When in fact you embellish so to twist others postitions into things you think is being said instead of what was. Stop adding to things people say and just deal with what they wrote it will make communication easier.
Nonsense. You twist the words of Paul to make it say way you want it to say.
Eg Paul in Ephesians 2, said that born again Christian saints are SAVED by grace through faith in God. These saints do NOT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE AS YET. They have to live righteously and do good works. Then they will be given eternal life when Jesus returns. Failure to do this means ...[text shortened]...
SAVED BY GRACE IS NOT EQUAL TO ETERNAL LIFE.
Like I said your church doctrine is garbage.
10 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayYou denouce good works.
Who is denouncing good works? I don’t believe anyone in this conversation has done that?
Statements like:
- good works is trying to earn your salvation.
- Jesus condemned good works
And other similar nonsensical statements which Jesus never said
10 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayYou dont get why they are important.
Who is denouncing good works? I don’t believe anyone in this conversation has done that?
They dont seem very high on your priority list.
Instead of recognizing good works as a major tennet of Christian life , you like to label everyone as unworthy sinners who dont have their own spiritual compass without faith in someone they have never met.
Does this make sense?
You constantly create separation with your words and sadly it seems you dont want to believe in anyone because you are unwilling to believe in your self.
10 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayYou are not making sense and just trying to run from the issue.
So show where I said all of that in the context you just wrote! You merge a lot of things together as it that was how I or others have said things. When in fact you embellish so to twist others postitions into things you think is being said instead of what was. Stop adding to things people say and just deal with what they wrote it will make communication easier.
Paul said in Eph 2 that Christian Saints who are born again are saved by grace through faith.
In Eph 3, 4 Paul warned these same Saints in Christ to make sure that they live righteously
In Eph 5, Paul said that they will NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD, unless they were righteous
So you are wrong. Eternal life is not by faith alone.
Faith PLUS works / righteousness = eternal life.
Your faith alone doctrine is condemned throughout the teachings of Christ and the Apostles
10 Jul 18
Originally posted by @rajk999Exact quotes please you throw things together as you just did proclaiming I said such things in the context you are relating them, but you are not being accurate instead you are throwing different points together in ways that they were not meant to be.
You denouce good works.
Statements like:
- good works is trying to earn your salvation.
- Jesus condemned good works
And other similar nonsensical statements which Jesus never said
10 Jul 18
Originally posted by @rajk999Kelly thinks he can dictate terms. Lol. As if some public approval of his frankly terrible message would make it any more tenable .
You are not making sense and just trying to run from the issue.
Paul said in Eph 2 that Christian Saints who are born again are saved by grace through faith.
In Eph 3, 4 Paul warned these same Saints in Christ to make sure that they live righteously
In Eph 5, Paul said that they will NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD, unless they were righteous
So ...[text shortened]... e.
Your faith alone doctrine is condemned throughout the teachings of Christ and the Apostles
This is not a game of who has the bigger weiner.
This is getting at the essence of all that is good and virtuous in the world.
This is for those who are brave and take life on.
We are supposed to be helping each other people
10 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayNo thanks. My point is made.
Exact quotes please you throw things together as you just did proclaiming I said such things in the context you are relating them, but you are not being accurate instead you are throwing different points together in ways that they were not meant to be.
You are a faith only person.
You are saved by faith, is your claim
You say you will do good works
Nowhere does the Bible say that every faithful Christian does good works
That is totally false.
Faithful Christians are warned that they MUST DO GOOD WORKS otherwise there is no eternal life.
So something is wrong with your doctrine... and you too for not reading the bible