Is God more cruel than the worst sadist you know?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
If any of these children were in imminent danger requiring a professional rescue operation they'd remain calm and be obedient to the directions they were given.

So although you are aware that "sometimes people behave strangely when faced with dire straits", you are confident that your own grandchildren would not?
I think you just don't want to answer the question.

Originally posted by CalJust
Well put.

So maybe you will be able to venture an opinion whether God (who has arguably the highest value on life) is able to "rush in" and save somebody - even if they are struggling and resisting the offered salvation?

This is the simple scenario which both GB and RJH are doing all in their power to avoid facing, with red herrings galore!

HE does, often!

I will often refer to myself as the servant of the Most High God. I am very aware of His presence in my life. And i can say that He leads me to where ever He needs me.

I have had a number of personal experiences. I drive semi. I had a blown tire on I-10 a few years ago, pulled over, called for assistance and was waiting for a service truck. Ahead of me about 200 ft was a car. I didn't think much of it. Yet i felt the Lord urge me to go to the car. A man was laying there with his wrists cut and bleeding. I had to break into the car, and bandaged his wrists. He wanted to die, and he was very angry with me. But he was also too weak to stop me.

I prayed for him, called him and wrote letters too. He later told me that it was though my desire to see him live that he wanted to live too. He now is married with children.

I have been privileged to have been involved in a few such cases. Each time it was thought the urging of the Holy Spirit.

Certainly God could reach these people on His own, but i think God uses people to do His will even more.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"FFS"? "If present at the rescue, I'd pray fervently for their deliverance and stay the hell out of the way."

"FFS" is a term of exasperation at your continued efforts to avoid answering the question. As others have mentioned, I suspect it is due to the knowledge that the answer will expose and confirm the inconsistencies in your beliefs.

Again you fail to appreciate the scenario.

[B]YOU ARE THE ONLY OTHER PERSON THERE[/B]

The emergency services have not arrived. There is no rescue for you to stay out of the way of. There is only you.

If all you do is 'pray fervently for their deliverance', they will die.

So I ask again:

What... would... you... do?

Penguin.

Originally posted by Penguin
"FFS" is a term of exasperation at your continued efforts to avoid answering the question. As others have mentioned, I suspect it is due to the knowledge that the answer will expose and confirm the inconsistencies in your beliefs.

Again you fail to appreciate the scenario.

[B]YOU ARE THE ONLY OTHER PERSON THERE[/B]

The emergency services have not ar ...[text shortened]... eliverance', [b]they will die.

So I ask again:

What... would... you... do?

Penguin.[/b]

Bet you cant tell him what FFS means. 😀

Originally posted by Penguin
"FFS" is a term of exasperation at your continued efforts to avoid answering the question. As others have mentioned, I suspect it is due to the knowledge that the answer will expose and confirm the inconsistencies in your beliefs.

Again you fail to appreciate the scenario.

[B]YOU ARE THE ONLY OTHER PERSON THERE[/B]

The emergency services have not ar ...[text shortened]... eliverance', [b]they will die.

So I ask again:

What... would... you... do?

Penguin.[/b]

"The emergency services have not arrived. There is no rescue for you to stay out of the way of. There is only you.

If all you do is 'pray fervently for their deliverance', they will die.

So I ask again:

What... would... you... do?

Penguin."

I'd do everything within my power to rescue them from pain and suffering, loss of limb and disfigurement and certain physical death just as I'm doing everything possible here to provide you with accurate salvation information.

Originally posted by twhitehead
So although you are aware that "sometimes people behave strangely when faced with dire straits", you are confident that your own grandchildren would not?
I think you just don't want to answer the question.

I respect your free will to think whatever you choose.... even, sadly, if it's less than the absolute truth or outright falsehood.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
Pffffffff......... again, it is a HYPOTHETICAL question. Why are you being so difficult about this?????

Pretend you are the only one present to help. Any help (either professional or non-professional) is going to come too late.

Your grandchildren's lifes are in your hands. They need to jump (you know this), but they don't believe you. You can't ...[text shortened]... ?

Please, GB, you are perfectly capable of answering this question. No need not to answer it.

GKR, please see my reply to Penguin on the following page. My apology for taking your question literally at face value.

Originally posted by CalJust
As I said before - I can feel for you as you squirm and try to make fun of the simple statements which leave your picture of God in an untenable position.

The scenario sketched needs your response, not your biographical details.

But, you have my sympathies. I was in your position for the most part of my Christian experience, and it is highly uncomfortable.

Take the plunge - jettison your defamatory concept of God and his wrath!

CJ, please see my replies to Penguin and Great King Rat on the following page. Thanks for sponsoring this conversation.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
just as I'm doing everything possible here to provide you with accurate salvation information.

There is certainly a time and place to " provide adequate salvation information" but this is not it!

You are doing an excellent job of avoiding answering one very simple question: why is it OK for a fireman to save somebody against their will, but not for God?

Why is it so difficult for you guys to answer this very simple question?

Could it possibly be intellectual dishonesty?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"The emergency services have not arrived. There is no rescue for you to stay out of the way of. There is only you.

If all you do is 'pray fervently for their deliverance', [b]they will die.

So I ask again:

What... would... you... do?

Penguin."

I'd do everything within my power to rescue them from pain and suffering, loss of limb and d ...[text shortened]... h just as I'm doing everything possible here to provide you with accurate salvation information.[/b]

The question was specifically adressing the matter of your grandchildren not wanting to be saved.

Would you - in the scenario painted before - save your grandchildren even if it was against their wishes? Would you force them to be saved by you?

That was the central, most important part of the question which you so far still have not answered even a little bit.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
I respect your free will to think whatever you choose.... even, sadly, if it's less than the absolute truth or outright falsehood.

It could be an absolute falsehood, but since you seem unwilling to correct it, if it is false, it is likely to remain so. Thats what happens when people ask for clarification and you avoid answering.

Originally posted by CalJust
There is certainly a time and place to " provide adequate salvation information" but this is not it!

You are doing an excellent job of avoiding answering one very simple question: why is it OK for a fireman to save somebody against their will, but not for God?

Why is it so difficult for you guys to answer this very simple question?

Could it possibly be intellectual dishonesty?

"Again you fail to appreciate the scenario.

[B]YOU ARE THE ONLY OTHER PERSON THERE[/B]

The emergency services have not arrived. There is no rescue for you to stay out of the way of. There is only you." Penguin

"why is it OK for a fireman to save somebody against their will, but not for God?" CalJust

"against their will" wasn't included as a qualifier by Penguin; had it been the hypothetical unravels: their will would have been to be rescued. Had the victims been strangers with suicidal wishes with no firemen on the scene, I'd call 911.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
The question was specifically adressing the matter of your grandchildren not wanting to be saved.

Would you - in the scenario painted before - save your grandchildren even if it was against their wishes? Would you force them to be saved by you?

That was the central, most important part of the question which you so far still have not answered even a little bit.

Regret having disappointed you.

Originally posted by twhitehead
It could be an absolute falsehood, but since you seem unwilling to correct it, if it is false, it is likely to remain so. Thats what happens when people ask for clarification and you avoid answering.

"It grieves me to realize there's the possibility that some of my acquaintances and friends
who contribute to this forum may be among them. -Bob" Thread 157295 Thread 157261

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby


"why is it OK for a fireman to save somebody against their will, but not for God?" CalJust

"against their will" wasn't included as a qualifier by Penguin; had it been the hypothetical unravels: their will would have been to be rescued. Had the victims been strangers with suicidal wishes with no firemen on the scene, I'd call 911.

I can't make up my mind whether you are really unable intellectually to grasp the problem I have posed in this thread, or whether you do understand it and just trying to play the fool.

I am not referring to Penguin or anybody else's contribution, merely trying to get a response to my original OP.

Without repeating (for the umpteenth time) the scenario I sketched, with RJH acknowledging that it is OK for a fireman to save somebody against their will, but not for God, could you PLEASE try to answer the question?

You are fast losing credibility in this forum....