22 May 22
@sonship saidYou "know" that Mars is uninhabitable because of "the rebellion of Satan" having "checked [a photograph of the surface of the planet] with your eyes and your heart" but you don't know this for certain? That is your religious belief about the planet Mars?
Check yourself. The next time you see a photograph of the surface of the planet Mars. Check your eyes and your heart. I wager that you stare at that picture of the desolate planet's surface searching for something that reminds you of earth, life, man's world. I wager that that is the intuitive sense in your heart that creation was arrange for human life. It just seems w ...[text shortened]... as something there once before the rebellion of Satan. But I speculate. I don't know for certain.
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22 May 22
6 edits
Your belief that scientists think everything came from nothing is wrong. All matter that exists always existed in some form.
I did not state that "scientists think eerything came from nothing" per se.
Some scientists redefine "nothing" to mean something like a quantum vacuum or something else extrememly esoteric.
Lawrence Krauss for example would argue strenuosly that his "nothing" actually is something.
I persoanlly do not believe that material is eternal in any form.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Gen. 1:1) marks the origin of time, space, matter, energy, material, laws of physics, etc. the whole shooting match. The exception is God Himself who is uncreated.
"All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being which has come into being." (John 1:3)
God is the one "who gives life to the dead and calls the things not being as being."
" [God of Abraham] . . . who gives life to the dead and calls the things not being as being." (Romans 4:17b)
He spoke and the universe stood fast.
[b]"Let all the earth fear Jehovah; Let all the inhabitants of the earth stand in awe of Him. For He spoke, and it was; He commanded, and it stood." (Psalm 33:8,9)
That is not a scientific explanation. But it is true truth.
We might get a similar sense of this as to when we think or imagine something.
With the eternal God, in whose image we were created, it is ultimate. Being, the universe, existence and all other things beside God Himself was commanded into being. He has the ultimate authority and power.
However we divide and subdivide the elements of the universe in ANY kind of quanta the reason for the existence of the universe lies outside of itself in God who trandcends forever His creation.
Though He is uncreated, self existing and trancends all time and space He has the ability to enter into it.
Imagine like an author who can write himself into his novel as a character.
He called all tbhings into being. But He entered creation, clothed Himself in creation and dwelt among us . . . ie. "tabernacled" among us.
"And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us (and we beheld His glory, glory of the only Begotten from the Father), full of grace and reality." (v.14)
The uncreated God in history tabernacled among us in Jesus Christ, demonstrating in many ways His absolute trandcendance, including His conquering of death itself in His resurrection from the dead.
"Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes into Me, even if he should die, shall live; And everyone who lives and believes into Me shall by no means die forever. Do you believe this." (John 11:25)
This is not a scientific explanation. But it is true truth. And that is what we want in addition to "How does stuff work mechanically?"
I wrote a song about this -
Because Out From Him - Romans 11:34 - 35
https://soundcloud.com/jack-wilmore/because-out-from-him-romans-11
22 May 22
@sonship saidTo your way of thinking, would gravity then be proof of a creator?
@divegeester
To your way of thinking, would gravity then be proof of a creator?
Whether scienctists can explain it or not, I would lean towards the existence of gravity to be evidence of God's existence.
I would lean towards gravity being for His plan to have a world with living things n it, at the pinnacle of which is man made in His image. ...[text shortened]... ity over His creation. (Not counting the fall of man into the opposition party against God, latter).
22 May 22
@vivify saidGood luck talking this science nonsense to kellyjay.
Saying gravity is evidence of a creator is like saying "everything" is evidence of a creator, since anything with mass has gravity.
Gravity is simply a natural effect of mass; so by that logic, random dust floating in space is "evidence" of a creator; clouds of gas thinly spread out in space would be "evidence", and so on.
🤩
22 May 22
@vivify saidHmm I think there is a flaw in that claim, which Einstein’s E=MC2 demonstrates.
Your belief that scientists think everything came from nothing is wrong. All matter that exists always existed in some form.
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22 May 22
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@divegeester
I think as I said it is evidence pointing in the direction of God.
Absolute proof in this would require absolute onmiscience. And only God has that.
But I certainly count the law of gravity as exquisitely calibrated as it is and useful for the existence if the universe and life in it, as evidence of a planning, caring, designing Creator.
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22 May 22
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Though there are many things that I rhink indicate God's reality, it seems that we are not totally bludgeoned to have to believe because of them.
It seems that even in the creation of the universe with all its laws and suitability for human life (though exceedingly local at the moment) God leaves an open door of imagining another explanation.
It is as if a great Gentleman has arranged it saying " Here is evidence for Me. But if your really don't want Me - here's a little exit door for you of your own will to slip out away."
I see strong evidence for God.
But I also see God not forcing us by bludgeoning us over the head. Nor does He write in the sky "Here I am. I am God here writing this in the stars for you."
Rather I see the One who wants our love to say "Now if your really don't want Me, here's an exit for you. If you really want nothing to do with Me, you can imagine some other explanation. You can slip right out away from having a relationship with God."
So the capacity for the human mind to imagine that perhaps there is no Creator God is pretty big. If you really want another explanation, you have the freedom to imagine SOMETHING else, not God, is the origin of the universe.
22 May 22
@sonship saidOk thanks, I just couldn’t be bother to read your super-long post. Sorry.
@divegeester
I think as I said it is evidence pointing in the direction of God.
22 May 22
1 edit
@divegeester said"Matter cannot be created nor destroyed"---The Law of Conservation of Mass
Hmm I think there is a flaw in that claim, which Einstein’s E=MC2 demonstrates.
Energy is considered a form of mass, hence "energy equals mass". Unless I'm missing something?
22 May 22
@vivify saidYou have failed to address where did matter come from, suggesting it cannot be
"Matter cannot be created nor destroyed"---The Law of Conservation of Mass
Energy is considered a form of mass, hence "energy equals mass". Unless I'm missing something?
created I think it is safe to say we cannot, that means only we cannot.
22 May 22
@vivify saidEnergy has no mass.
"Matter cannot be created nor destroyed"---The Law of Conservation of Mass
Energy is considered a form of mass, hence "energy equals mass". Unless I'm missing something?
22 May 22
@kellyjay saidE=MC2 converted and solved for M
You have failed to address where did matter come from, suggesting it cannot be
created I think it is safe to say we cannot, that means only we cannot.
Mass can be converted into pure energy
Energy can therefore be converted into mass
22 May 22
@divegeester saidhttps://www.universetoday.com/116615/how-are-energy-and-matter-the-same/
Energy has no mass.
"Albert Einstein’s most famous equation says that energy and matter are two sides of the same coin."
22 May 22
1 edit
@divegeester saidOkay, so you already understand this.
E=MC2 converted and solved for M
Mass can be converted into pure energy
Energy can therefore be converted into mass
That's what I mean when I said all matter existed in some form, even if that meant as energy.
22 May 22
@divegeester saidDoes that tell you where it all came from?
E=MC2 converted and solved for M
Mass can be converted into pure energy
Energy can therefore be converted into mass