Is life mysterious?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Yes , I understand what you mean now.

You believe magic and miracle are just two words meaning the same thing, since you don't believe either one is a real supernatural event, Right?

Correct - I am certain that neither are real events, and I hold that they are equivalent terms; and furthermore the dichotomy you seek to establish based on the fact that the collection of people you belong to believes only one of them to be real (the magician in this case being "God" ) is not valid.

Originally posted by FMF
Miracles/magic are synonymous in so far as what we are discussing here is concerned. We are not talking about "magic" in the TV show sense, just as we are not talking about "miracles" in the 3-seconds-to-go Hail Mary pass sense. In the case of both words we are talking about "supernatural power over natural forces".

Okay, I think I get it.

Black magic is something unexplained that is bad and associated with witchcraft or the power of Satan the devil.

A miracle is something unexplained that is good and associated with the power of God or Christ Jesus.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Okay, I think I get it.

Black magic is something unexplained that is bad and associated with witchcraft or the power of Satan the devil.

A miracle is something unexplained that is good and associated with the power of God or Christ Jesus.

Who you happen think is responsible for different kinds of supposed supernatural occurrences is irrelevant.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Okay, I think I get it.

Black magic is something unexplained that is bad and associated with witchcraft or the power of Satan the devil.

A miracle is something unexplained that is good and associated with the power of God or Christ Jesus.

Nope ... you're still trying, in vain, to drive a wedge between their synonymity. We could equally well say, for sake of argument, that

- White magic is something unexplained that is good and associated with the power of God
- A dark miracle is something unexplained that is bad and associated with witchcraft or the power of Satan the devil.

Originally posted by Agerg
Nope ... you're still trying, in vain, to drive a wedge between their synonymity. We could equally well say, for sake of argument, that

- White magic is something unexplained that is good and associated with the power of God
- A dark miracle is something unexplained that is bad and associated with witchcraft or the power of Satan the devil.

I have heard of white magic, but not a dark miracle. Perhaps you are making up the dark miracle.

However, the Holy Bible condemns both white and black magic as tricks of Satan the devil.

And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

(2 Corinthians 11:14-15 NKJV)

Originally posted by RJHinds
I have heard of white magic, but not a dark miracle. Perhaps you are making up the dark miracle.

However, the Holy Bible condemns both white and black magic as tricks of Satan the devil.

But then the Bible should condemn "God" since "He" is said to, in so many words, perform white magic himself (though the colour of that magic is open to debate - I would regard much of the things "He" is said to have done to be a form of black magic infinitely many orders of magnitude worse than the subset of magic events you are considering)

Again miracles and magic are merely two different terms to denote essentially the same thing. Both are the vestige of childish fantasies that for some reason have not been out-grown as such children turn into adults.

Originally posted by Agerg
But then the Bible should condemn "God" since "He" is said to perform white magic himself (though the colour of that magic is open to debate - I would regard much of the things "He" is said to have done to be a form of black magic infinitely many orders of magnitude worse than the subset of magic events you are considering)

I don't recall anything about God performing white magic. Do you happen to have that reference?

Originally posted by RJHinds
I don't recall anything about God performing white magic. Do you happen to have that reference?

take your favourite miracle = magic from the Bible

QED.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I don't recall anything about God performing white magic. Do you happen to have that reference?

What do you call turning water into wine?

Do you think Jesus had the power of influencing
events by using mysterious or supernatural forces?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
What do you call turning water into wine?

Do you think Jesus had the power of influencing
events by using mysterious or supernatural forces?

You may call it magic, but the Holy Bible says it was a miracle or a sign from God and I believe it.

This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

(John 2:11 KJV)

I believe Jesus got His power from God, not Satan the devil, like the Pharisees claimed.

But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

(Matthew 12:24 KJV)

Originally posted by RJHinds
You may call it magic, but the Holy Bible says it was a miracle or a sign from God and I believe it.

This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

(John 2:11 KJV)

I believe Jesus got His power from God, not Satan the devil, like the Pharisees claimed.

[qu ...[text shortened]... h not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. [/quote]
(Matthew 12:24 KJV)

Nobody is saying it wasn't a miracle.
We are saying that miracles are magic.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Nobody is saying it wasn't a miracle.
We are saying that miracles are magic.

Then do you believe that all magic are miracles?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Then do you believe that all magic are miracles?

For F's sake can't you people use a dictionary?!?

* all miracles are magic
that does not mean all magic is a miracle

miracles are "good" deeds done by deities using their supernatural powers

Originally posted by wolfgang59
For F's sake can't you people use a dictionary?!?

* all miracles are magic
that does not mean all magic is a miracle

miracles are "good" deeds done by deities using their supernatural powers

Is it a miracle if they get what you're saying?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
For F's sake can't you people use a dictionary?!?

* all miracles are magic
that does not mean all magic is a miracle

miracles are "good" deeds done by deities using their supernatural powers

Actually this is not accurate, magic relies of deception and the use of props, when one examines the Biblical miracles performed by Jesus there is nothing 'magical', about them, infact, they are almost matter of fact and completely devoid of sensationalism. He simply says to Lazarus, 'come on out', he says to a man who cannot walk, 'get up', to a dead girl, 'rise', no smoke, no mirrors, no gimmicks, absolutely matter of fact. This is a stark contrast to the gimmickry of magic and is not easily explained by those who say they are akin to magic.