25 Mar 07
Why do people believe in God in the first place? I can only come up with three reasons:
1. Fear of hell
2. Want to live forever and go to heaven
3. Can't explain how we came to exist.
All these reasons seem bad. Science is a much better way to take on #3, and the first two are just for self interest. I don't get it.
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25 Mar 07
Originally posted by Zander 88Because I reasoned that 70 years and a hole in the ground made life senseless. Why do good? If there is no God, I'll drink, eat and be merry, along with taking what I want. Your wife, your daughter, whoever, along with your money. And if I don't succeed, someone else will. Point is, what is right or wrong, and why would it matter?....After this I reasoned that the order of the universe could not be accidental. After this it becomes personal, but in short, I cried out to God and He answered in a big way that erased all doubt of His existence. After that I had to learn the bible, His book, so I could learn more about Him. Since then it has become a love relationship, and I am still in the learning stage after 57 years....the other religions you or someone else mentioned offer no hope, no love, no forgiveness. They all demand that you do something to earn salvation. God sent His Son to buy your salvation. All you have to do is ask Him. He will not disappoint and promises so in His word. All He wants for His children is to love them and bless them. And one cannot help but love Him in return. He is gracious, kind, forgiving, He comforts us when we hurt, He inspires us when we get lazy, and scolds us when we go astray. If people only understood what Jesus went through on the cross! This is a study in itself. But it was done out of love for you and me. In spite of all this people continue to mock Him and spit in His face. But He forgives even this. God is love and in Him is no darkness at all.....later.
Why do people believe in God in the first place? I can only come up with three reasons:
1. Fear of hell
2. Want to live forever and go to heaven
3. Can't explain how we came to exist.
All these reasons seem bad. Science is a much better way to take on #3, and the first two are just for self interest. I don't get it.
26 Mar 07
1 edit
Originally posted by TytoWhat does size have to do with anything? Its not the size that matters...........er.....um.....of coarse that does not sound right at all, let me try again.
The universe is big, really big.
So big that for some, the only possible explanation is a creator god.
As it is so big, I'm not convinced that one god would be enough. Surely it would take 2 or 3, or possibly 20 or 50 or 1,000! Maybe the Universe is so complex that there are gods everywhere!
Why shouldn't this be true? Thoughts?
(Thanks to Nick Gisburne for the question)
Why are you so focused on the size of the universe? This question is only based upon your own perspective. Especially in light of the fact that God is said to be a spirit. Perhaps God made the universe so vast based on our own perspecitive in order to try and give us a little humility. I think it works to a certain degree.
26 Mar 07
Originally posted by checkbaiterI find it sad that many people require some sort of external prompt to determine their moral and ethical position on life and to provide them with some sort of 'meaning'.
Because I reasoned that 70 years and a hole in the ground made life senseless. Why do good? If there is no God, I'll drink, eat and be merry, along with taking what I want. Your wife, your daughter, whoever, along with your money. And if I don't succeed, someone else will. Point is, what is right or wrong, and why would it matter?....After this I reasone ...[text shortened]... n His face. But He forgives even this. God is love and in Him is no darkness at all.....later.
Do you find it strange or jarring that there are people out there in the world, who take similar moral positions to you, and who have meaning in their lives, but who don't believe in any gods (or God)?
26 Mar 07
1 edit
Originally posted by TytoI suppose it depends on your definition of "gods". It is interesting that when Lucifer tempted Adam and Eve in the garden he told them that they would be as gods. For me this is an indication that once they ignored the Lordship of their God they then became their own god. It has no bearing on supernatural capabilities of any kind. With that in mind, there is only one Supreme God above all. That, of coarse, is the God of the Bible.
How do you know there aren't any other gods?
Do you have evidence?
I think that to have order in the universe a One God scenerio works best. If you have other equally or more powerful gods in the mix it becomes rather difficult to run things in an orderly fashion. But then you say that there is chaos in the universe in regards to sin and such. To that I would say that there are lesser gods in the mix doing as they please in direct defiance of the Almighty. Granted, there is chaos as a result, however, it is remarkably ordered chaos in my view. For me this is an indication that God is in control even though there are elements that exist that are fighting him for that control, albiet in vain.
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26 Mar 07
Originally posted by amannionI'm not sure if I understand your question. My moral position is to do what is right according to the Word of God. God invented life and knows best how to live it. Without God there is no hope. If you are referring to my above answer, yes, before God came into my life, I was all out for myself. I could steal, do drugs, etc with no guilt of any kind. I had a seared conscience. Now that has all changed. God did a number on my heart. He gave me a new one...
I find it sad that many people require some sort of external prompt to determine their moral and ethical position on life and to provide them with some sort of 'meaning'.
Do you find it strange or jarring that there are people out there in the world, who take similar moral positions to you, and who have meaning in their lives, but who don't believe in any gods (or God)?
26 Mar 07
Originally posted by checkbaiterWhat I'm asking is, do you find it strange that other people don't necessarily have the same experience?
I'm not sure if I understand your question. My moral position is to do what is right according to the Word of God. God invented life and knows best how to live it. Without God there is no hope. If you are referring to my above answer, yes, before God came into my life, I was all out for myself. I could steal, do drugs, etc with no guilt of any kind. I ha ...[text shortened]... red conscience. Now that has all changed. God did a number on my heart. He gave me a new one...
You talk about your life before 'finding god' as being one without meaning and without moral/ethical positions. God changed all that for you.
I don't have god and yet I have meaning and I have moral/ethical positions (probably not very different from yours in most cases).
How can that be? How can I , who have not (and never will) find god, have meaning, when you did not?
Does that not seem strange to you?
26 Mar 07
Originally posted by amannionForgive me for intruding but I would like to say that from my own perspective as a believer, I would compare finding Christ to falling in love with the woman of my dreams. Before I found the woman of my dreams my life had meaning, however, looking back before I found her I sit and wonder how I got along without her before I met her. I hope this helps.
What I'm asking is, do you find it strange that other people don't necessarily have the same experience?
You talk about your life before 'finding god' as being one without meaning and without moral/ethical positions. God changed all that for you.
I don't have god and yet I have meaning and I have moral/ethical positions (probably not very different from y ...[text shortened]... d never will) find god, have meaning, when you did not?
Does that not seem strange to you?
26 Mar 07
Originally posted by whodeyYes, that makes sense to me, but that's not what I'm asking about here. The issue to me seems to be that some people claim that their moral and ethical sense of themselves only has meaning because of their belief in god. I don't believe in god, but I too have a moral and ethical sense.
Forgive me for intruding but I would like to say that from my own perspective as a believer, I would compare finding Christ to falling in love with the woman of my dreams. Before I found the woman of my dreams my life had meaning, however, looking back before I found her I sit and wonder how I got along without her before I met her. I hope this helps.
How can this be?
I think it is because god and religion are not the only way to generate such positions - in fact, I don't find them to be a terribly credible way at all.
Your analogy of the woman by the way, reminds me of having my kids. Life before my kids is a strange one to think about - can't imagine it now.
26 Mar 07
2 edits
Originally posted by amannionWe not only all live by a moral code we require a moral code because God also requires a moral code and we were made in his image. We all have checks and balances in terms of an innate conscience. However, we can override such checks and balances if we so choose and this is referred to as "searing" your conscience so that eventually those checks and balances are silenced. Unfortunatly, because of our sin nature our own innate sense of right and wrong often becomes skewed to various degrees. However, for the most part we can all agree that it is wrong to murder, steal, lie, etc.
Yes, that makes sense to me, but that's not what I'm asking about here. The issue to me seems to be that some people claim that their moral and ethical sense of themselves only has meaning because of their belief in god. I don't believe in god, but I too have a moral and ethical sense.
How can this be?
I think it is because god and religion are not the on having my kids. Life before my kids is a strange one to think about - can't imagine it now.
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26 Mar 07
Originally posted by amannionYou are correct. There are many "good" people who are not Christian. But they still have a sin nature. As for your question, no it is not strange. I have seen people transformed from all walks of life. Each experience is different. Some have no experiance, they just believe....
What I'm asking is, do you find it strange that other people don't necessarily have the same experience?
You talk about your life before 'finding god' as being one without meaning and without moral/ethical positions. God changed all that for you.
I don't have god and yet I have meaning and I have moral/ethical positions (probably not very different from y ...[text shortened]... d never will) find god, have meaning, when you did not?
Does that not seem strange to you?
26 Mar 07
Originally posted by checkbaiterA sin nature?
You are correct. There are many "good" people who are not Christian. But they still have a sin nature. As for your question, no it is not strange. I have seen people transformed from all walks of life. Each experience is different. Some have no experiance, they just believe....
What pray tell might that be?
No, on second thoughts don't bother - I'll probably get some illogical and unthoughtful religious diatribe.
Reminds me of the catholic prayer that goes something like ... 'lord, I am not worthy but just say the word and' ... you can fill in the rest I'm sure.
I find it outrageous that the default position is that we humans are sinfull and unworthy. And I reject such a notion entirely.
26 Mar 07
Originally posted by amannionAre you blind? Just look at the condition of the human race. We're on the verge of WW3 for crying out loud!
A sin nature?
What pray tell might that be?
No, on second thoughts don't bother - I'll probably get some illogical and unthoughtful religious diatribe.
Reminds me of the catholic prayer that goes something like ... 'lord, I am not worthy but just say the word and' ... you can fill in the rest I'm sure.
I find it outrageous that the default position is that we humans are sinfull and unworthy. And I reject such a notion entirely.
Have you seen the local news?
Don't try to tell me we aren't sinful. It's just too obvious.
Felt good to get that off my chess. Now I'm going to bed. It's late, I'm tired, and I've been whining all day. I've had a head cold for 3 days now. With a headache.