Is the Bible trustworthy

@fmf said
I have told you how Christianity and Islam have affected my moral compass.

But that is not answering the question.

Why do you say that morality is all that matters to you when you insist on saying that the morality of Jesus and Mohammad were equivalent?


Obviously they were very different, or do you disagree? Is the morality of Mohammad who took female sex slaves, converted with the sword, and took a child as a wife morally equivalent to that of Christ?

I also understand wanting to take a pass if you live in a Islamic dominated country that my have repercussions for stating the truth regarding such matters.

If so, I will then graciously accept your pass on the question to help maintain your personal safety.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Most people 'without' God don't feel at liberty to go around killing whoever they want or stealing whatever they want. And this isn't due to fear of being punished, but because 'morality matters.'

As an atheist, I go around killing and stealing as much as I want...And that is, 'not at all.'

Atheistic Marxism/communism/socialism have murdered hundreds of thousands of people throughout history.

I'm not sure what you mean by feeling at liberty to do such things. Mass killings does require the help of the state though. In fact, the state is the most murderous institution in human history. That is the price you pay for organized and centralized efficiency.

@whodey said
Why do you say that morality is all that matters to you when you insist on saying that the morality of Jesus and Mohammad were equivalent?


Obviously they were very different, or do you disagree? Is the morality of Mohammad who took female sex slaves, converted with the sword, and took a child as a wife morally equivalent to that of Christ?

My normal compass draws on values and norms from both traditions. In many ways they are similar. But I am not an adherent of either religion. I don't see what the age at which people were often betrothed to each other in the middle ages, especially leaders and important figures, has to do with me living now in the C21st. Nor am I a supporter of slavery or forcing religion on people by military force. There is nothing ambiguous about my moral stances on these things. Your preference for Jesus creates no moral imperatives or dilemmas for me. Nor does is it evidence of Jesus being divine.

@whodey said

I also understand wanting to take a pass if you live in a Islamic dominated country that my have repercussions for stating the truth regarding such matters.

If so, I will then graciously accept your pass on the question to help maintain your personal safety.

My "personal safety"?

@whodey said
you insist on saying that the morality of Jesus and Mohammad were equivalent?

I have said no such thing. You keep bandying about the word "equvalent" but it's a word you have introduced, not me. I am giving you a much more honest and nuanced and personal answer than your apparent gagging for a cable-news-soundbite type approach appears to pine for.

I don't draw any personal moral inspiration from the life of either man. They are not "equvalents". One was a Jewish rabbi ~ who wrote nothing ~ and whose purported character was buffed and stylized by ecclesiastical spin doctors for centuries, so much so, he is unknowable, and could well have been fabricated altogether.

Meanhile, the other was a grimly successful military leader and reluctant [supposed] prophet whose biography is as unvarnished as the distinctly brutal times in which he lived ~ and whose written legacy is a higgledy-piggeldy mess.

Both are stone dead and not personally relevant to me. I revere neither.

Your dreary dichotomy probably excites your partisan religionist mind. But I am not a religionist and the actual life of neither man has a moral bearing on my personal mindmap. My moral compass draws not on the life of either man, but on the two traditions.

@whodey said
Atheistic Marxism/communism/socialism have murdered hundreds of thousands of people throughout history.

I'm not sure what you mean by feeling at liberty to do such things. Mass killings does require the help of the state though. In fact, the state is the most murderous institution in human history. That is the price you pay for organized and centralized efficiency.

Some theists have said that atheists (without God as a moral lawgiver) are free to do whatever they want, without fear of eternal consequences. (That is what I mean by 'liberty' ). In reality, of course, atheists are no more or less moral than theists and are likewise governed by their conscience and humanity.

And religion has also led to mass killings, so not sure what your point is there.

@dj2becker said
I am almost certain you will dodge this question but I’ll ask it anyway.

Is there any part of the Bible that you find to be trustworthy and if so why?

And if you don’t find any part of it trustworthy why believe anything that it says?

Yes I find it all to be trustworthy.

Hope that helps

@whodey said
Interestingly, C. S. Lewis did not believe in inerrancy

https://internetmonk.com/archive/cs-lewis-and-inerrancy


Attracted by Lewis’s clear presentation of Christianity, readers often are surprised when they discover Lewis’s assessment of the Bible. He discussed questions such as: What does it mean for Scripture to be “inspired by God” (2 Tim. 3:16)? Is it true ...[text shortened]... ze Lewis’s words with biblical inerrancy and infallibility; unfortunately, this attempt is futile.

You should cite your source whodey

@divegeester said
Yes I find it all to be trustworthy.

Hope that helps

Great I assume on the basis that you believe it all to be divinely inspired?

@fmf said
I have said no such thing. You keep bandying about the word "equvalent" but it's a word you have introduced, not me. I am giving you a much more honest and nuanced and personal answer than your apparent gagging for a cable-news-soundbite type approach appears to pine for.

I don't draw any personal moral inspiration from the life of either man. They are not "equvalents". One wa ...[text shortened]... y personal mindmap. My moral compass draws not on the life of either man, but on the two traditions.

I thought that the discussion about the moral equivalency of Jesus and Mohammad was based upon what was written about them rather than haggle about the trustworthiness of what was written about them.

If you were to take what was written about both of them to heart, would there be moral equivalency, or is Jesus far superior?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Some theists have said that atheists (without God as a moral lawgiver) are free to do whatever they want, without fear of eternal consequences. (That is what I mean by 'liberty' ). In reality, of course, atheists are no more or less moral than theists and are likewise governed by their conscience and humanity.

And religion has also led to mass killings, so not sure what your point is there.

You think people are design different if they are Atheists or Theists?

@kellyjay said
You think people are design different if they are Atheists or Theists?

Sorry Kelly, but please explain that question.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Sorry Kelly, but please explain that question.

It isn't like the are fundamental differences between the two (Atheist, Theist) except one and that One difference isn't as wide spread as many think. Finding a fault in an Atheist and finding a fault in a Theist doesn't mean that there are any differences between either at all. If one doesn't have God within then the Theist is more than likely worse off than the Atheist at the moment, because you have someone in the Theist that doesn't have God but just enough religion to think they are so how righteous over the Atheist while carrying the same mindset. People are people, and if there isn't a real difference between the two, comparing one to the other is always going show the that.

@kellyjay said
It isn't like the are fundamental differences between the two (Atheist, Theist) except one and that One difference isn't as wide spread as many think. Finding a fault in an Atheist and finding a fault in a Theist doesn't mean that there are any differences between either at all. If one doesn't have God within then the Theist is more than likely worse off than the Atheist at ...[text shortened]... e isn't a real difference between the two, comparing one to the other is always going show the that.

Yes, people are people.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Yes, people are people.

So when you see a Theist where there is no difference between them and an Atheist more than likely there is no difference between them and the Atheist in all parts of reality. Meeting God will change your life, making you a different person. You can get hit by a fast moving truck it will alter your life, meeting the creator God of the universe would be even a greater impact than that of a truck.