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Originally posted by divegeesterSo when you say your erroneous doctrine is "taught" in the bible but is actually still a mystery, what you are implying is that it's not taught very well.
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We are taught quite well how to receive God and how to live in the sphere of God's presence.
You're mad because there is not a computer flow chart that systematically outlines a doctrine of the mystery.
The New Testament spoke this matter, that there is a mystery. I didn't invent the "mystery" label in order to save face.
"And confessedly, great is the mystery of godliness:
He who was manifested in the flesh, ... etc. etc. " (1 Timothy 3:16a)
Notice the Apostle Paul did not say "great WAS the mystery". He still considered what the saints were experiencing of God and of Christ to be a present day "great ... mystery".
You smile. But you're not as clever as you think you are.
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Originally posted by sonshipIt's not about being clever.
But you're not as clever as you think you are.
No, you are claiming that a doctrine, which I contend is false, is "taught" in the bible. Then you are claiming it is a "mystery".
If it is "taught" in the bible then it would not be a mystery. If it was hidden, it would be. It is not in the bible sonship. The trinity concept is a man made erroneous doctrine. god is one entity revealed in several offices, not three persons, peoples or beings. Try to look at it differently for once in your life.
04 Mar 17
Originally posted by divegeesterOkay, a trinity of 'offices', not 'persons'.
It's not about being clever.
No, you are claiming that a doctrine, which I contend is false, is "taught" in the bible. Then you are claiming it is a "mystery".
If it is "taught" in the bible then it would not be a mystery. If it was hidden, it would be. It is not in the bible sonship. The trinity concept is a man made erroneous doctrine. god is one ...[text shortened]... ices, not three persons, peoples or beings. Try to look at it differently for once in your life.
Sounds like you're disagreeing solely to disagree.
He said some other stuff that got you riled up and so now you refuse to agree with him on ANYthing, only for the principle of it, which seems ridiculous. Like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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05 Mar 17
Originally posted by SuzianneThat's right, offices not persons.
Okay, a trinity of 'offices', not 'persons'.
Sounds like you're disagreeing solely to disagree.
He said some other stuff that got you riled up and so now you refuse to agree with him on ANYthing, only for the principle of it, which seems ridiculous. Like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Do you have a point?
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Originally posted by divegeester
No, you are claiming that a doctrine, which I contend is false, is "taught" in the bible. Then you are claiming it is a "mystery".
I claim the mystery of God, Christ? Or the Bible claims "the mystery of God, Christ"?
The New Testament claims and I agree. I just say "Amen" to Colossians 1:26.
And when I do, you accuse me of inventing the concept that the Trinity is a mystery.
If it is "taught" in the bible then it would not be a mystery.
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As a systematic matter it may not be taught. But as a revelation, how can you possibly say it is not revealed in the Bible that the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are not each explained to be God?
Didn't you read that one of the qualifications of some responsible ones serving the church were to hold "the mystery of the faith" with pure conscience? ( 1 Tim. 3:9)
IMO that mystery of the faith concerns the whole matter of Jesus Christ being God incarnate, sent by "the Father".
If you condemn me for inventing a concept of "mystery of the faith" before I agreed the Apostle Paul wrote of that. Sure. He did not use the word trinity. I agree. But what else could he be speaking of as a matter of faith which is mysterious ? God is in Christ. And Christ is a man. However you look at it, that is rather mysterious.
But we can enjoy Him nonetheless.
If it was hidden, it would be. It is not in the bible sonship.
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It was hidden. The mystery is now revealed. But it is STILL mysterious.
"Now to HIm who is able to establish you according to my gospel, that is, the proclamation of Jesus Christ, accoding to the revelation of the MYSTERY, which has been kept in silence in the times of the ages.
But has now been manifested, and through the prophetic writings, according to the command of the eternal God, has been made known to all the Gentiles for the obedience of faith." (Rom. 16:25,26)
Though the mystery is revealed it is still rather profound - God became a man. The Father God sent the Son of God and the two _____ are a divine "We" working in us for the accomplishment of God's eternal purpose.
The trinity concept is a man made erroneous doctrine. god is one entity revealed in several offices, not three persons, peoples or beings. Try to look at it differently for once in your life.
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It is still mysterious. Two "offices" as you say, speak of themselves as "We" and "Us".
In your family you may have an "office" as a daddy and another "office" as an employee at some job. But you don't tell your family - "We will come home to you tonight."
You may have an "office" as a father and an "office" as a husband. You don't tell your family "Who will cut the grass for Us? "
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16 Mar 17
Originally posted by sonship'We are not amused.' Queen Victoria.No, you are claiming that a doctrine, which I contend is false, is "taught" in the bible. Then you are claiming it is a "mystery".
I claim the mystery of God, Christ? Or the Bible claims [b]"the mystery of God, Christ"?
The New Testament claims and I agree. I just say "Amen" to Colossians 1:26.
And when I do, you accuse ...[text shortened]... d an "office" as a husband. You don't tell your family "Who will cut the grass for Us? "[/b]
Was the Queen more than one person?
23 Mar 17
2 edits
Originally posted by divegeesterMy point is that is the "trinity" concept in a nutshell.
Wel my point is and has always been, that three offices it not the same as three distinct people. The one God reveals his one entity in three offices.
What's your point? If you have one.
You knew this was my point. Why the head in the sand in order to suggest that I don't have a point? Since when is all conversation with you just "forum combat"?
It seems straight from the 'Gospel of FMF', in the "how to deal with people who disagree with you" chapter.
Except I don't fully 'disagree'. You just think I do, and so you do, too. Not because you actually do, but as a measure to 'save face'. An old forum tactic.
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23 Mar 17
1 edit
Originally posted by SuzianneI honestly have no idea where you are going with this. You say your point is "the trinity concept in a nutshell". This is not a point, is a collection 6 words which mean absolutely nothing at all.
My point is that is the "trinity" concept in a nutshell.
You knew this was my point. Why the head in the sand in order to suggest that I don't have a point? Since when is all conversation with you just "forum combat"?
It seems straight from the 'Gospel of FMF', in the "how to deal with people who disagree with you" chapter.
Except I don't fully ' ...[text shortened]... ou do, too. Not because you actually do, but as a measure to 'save face'. An old forum tactic.
My point is that offices are not people. God has at least three venerable offices wherein he manifests himeslf. These are as god our father, as god our brother and the son of man (as he called himself) and as spirit. These are three offices of the same entity.
What was your point?
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05 Apr 17
1 edit
uorweOriginally posted by divegeester
More blather.
You claim that the trinity doctrine is [b]"taught" in the Bible, it isn't. "Trinity" "triune" "3 people in one God" are words and phrases that are not even mentioned in the BIble, let alone "taught".
You made that statement up sonship.[/b]
You claim that the trinity doctrine is "taught" in the Bible, it isn't. "Trinity" "triune" "3 people in one God" are words and phrases that are not even mentioned in the BIble, let alone "taught".
The following passage is a TEACHING of the New Testament:
"But there are distinctions of gifts, but the same Spirit;
And there are distinctions of ministries, yet the same Lord;
And there are distinctions of operations, but the same God, who operates all things in all." (1 Cor. 12:4-6)
Here Paul teaches that simultaneously "the Lord [Jesus]" is at work and "the same Spirit [Holy Spirit]" is at work and "the same God" [the Father] is at work.
That is three "Persons" [for lack of a better human language expression].
This is enough to show three - the same Holy Spirit lives and acts as the same Lord Jesus lives and acts as the same God the Father lives and acts.
Furthermore, the Apostle teaches that God the Father operates all things -
" ... but the same God, who operates all things in all" (v.6)
Yet five verses latter Paul teaches that it is the Holy Spirit who operates all these things.
"But the one and the same Spirit operates all these things, distributing to each respectively even as He purposes." (v.11)
These means that Paul is teaching that God the Father cannot be separated from God the Holy Spirit. God the Father's operation the operation is in and of the Holy Spirit's operation. The pronoun "He" is given to the Holy Spirit.
" ... and the same Spirit ....distributing ... even as He purposes." (v.11)
Yet the ONE "same Spirit / same God" is also two. For Paul teaches that God knows what is the mind of the Holy Spirit Who intercedes for the Christians.
"But He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is. because He [Holy Spirit] intercedes for the saints according to God." (Rom. 8:27)
So we have a teaching that the Spirit and God the Father are mysteriously one - two.
But we also have definite teaching that the Spirit and Jesus Christ are one - two as well.
" And the Lord is the Spirit ..." (2 Cor. 3:17a)
Therefore we have definite teaching of the distinction and oneness of Spirit and God.
And we have definite teaching of the distinction and oneness of the Spirit and the Lord Jesus Christ.
"the Lord" there is definitely Jesus Christ as the teaching of the next chapter plainly says.
"For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord ..." (2 Cor. 4:3a)
The net result of this definite teaching is that God is triune - Father - Son - Holy Spirit.
And of course the mysterious three-oneness is taught by Jesus when He speaks of the divine "We" and the divine "Us" of John 14 and 17 respectively.
The revelation of the Trinity is taught in the Bible.
