Jeffrey Dahmer

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no they are not, they are rallying against the personality revealed to them in scripture, it has nothing to do with me! making your point, super bumf! For example , God is a genocidal maniac, after they read about the wars with the Canaanite. God is cruel, after they read a bout his allowing of slavery. God is homophobic after they read about the ...[text shortened]... morality. Your point fails, big time, and no amount of posturing will save you this time Agers.

I edited in a part you may not have seen but, the fact that claims are made about some god based upon some holy book means claims are being made about the formultion of some god by ancient humans who helped write it - that you subscribe to in part (along with whatever twisting of the scriptures seems best to you).

Based on what I've seen in your other threads, you would be suspicious of the morality of Allah would you not?

Or are you logically denied the opportunity of measuring Allah's morality against your own on the grounds that no human should be comparing themselves with a god!??? 😕

Originally posted by Agerg
I edited in a part you may not have seen but, the fact that claims are made about some god based upon some holy book means claims are being made about the formultion of some god by ancient humans who helped write it - that you subscribe to in part (along with whatever twisting of the scriptures seems best to you).

Based on what I've seen in your other threads, you would be suspicious of the morality of Allah would you not?

yes i saw it and dismissed it out of hand as the work of a desperado!

As for the morality of Allah, or any other claim of divinity for that matter, it must be ascertained as to why a course of action was taken, indeed to dismiss on the grounds that our morality is better, without trying to understand the circumstances is equivalent to prejudice. Your not prejudicial are you Agers😕

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes i saw it and dismissed it out of hand as the work of a desperado!

As for the morality of Allah, or any other claim of divinity for that matter, it must be ascertained as to why a course of action was taken, indeed to dismiss on the grounds that our morality is better, without trying to understand the circumstances is equivalent to prejudice. Your not prejudicial are you Agers😕

So I take it you sit down and really give yourself a mental work out trying to figure out why Allah - as if a human could possibly understand a god!! - commands his followers to kill all unbelievers.

You always do this before concluding Islamic god isn't very nice!?? (and I'm basing this on my recall of the tone of other posts you have made)



No I'm not prejudical Robbie; I might be a bastard, but at least I'm a fair bastard --- I'm equally critical of all gods! No favouritism here.

Originally posted by Agerg
So I take it you sit down and really give yourself a mental work out trying to figure out why Allah [b]- as if a human could possibly understand a god!! - commands his followers to kill all unbelievers.

You always do this before concluding Islamic god isn't very nice!?? (and I'm basing this on my recall of the tone of other posts you have made)[/b]

yes i subject it to scrutiny in an attempt to understand, for understanding is the prime objective. For example, why the Islamic God would instruct his devotees to murder unbelievers, what is the reason? Is there a danger of apostasy, therefore he feels the need to control his followers, why should that be? It throws up certain ideas, does he rule out of fear or love, and if the former, why? if the latter, what evidence is there, and thus, the process of asking why, which demands a reason, continues at every level. If no reason can be found, either through lack of knowledge or understanding, one may look at the actions of the Gods followers and try to ascertain if there is a direct correlation between the teachings and the actions and what the nature of the relationship is and to what degree are the teachings effected, thus even in this instance we are looking for reason, rather than condemnation.

This is quite a different process than saying i dont agree, or i think its absurd, for no other reason than we dont like a particular course of action. I dont think you are a bastard, why would you say that?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes i subject it to scrutiny in an attempt to understand, for understanding is the prime objective. For example, why the Islamic God would instruct his devotees to murder unbelievers, what is the reason? Is there a danger of apostasy, therefore he feels the need to control his followers, why should that be? It throws up certain ideas, does he rule ...[text shortened]... chings effected, thus even in this instance we are looking for reason, rather than condemnation.

You don't see it as somewhat presumptious on your part, a mere human, trying to understand the mindset of an infinitely wiser and intelligent being than yourself!?
Do you really think you can possibly understand Allah!?...understand why you, I, or any other unbeliever should be killed!??? 😕

Such hubris!!!

Originally posted by Agerg
You don't see it as somewhat presumptious on your part, [b]a mere human, trying to understand the mindset of an infinitely wiser and intelligent being than yourself!?
Do you really think you can possibly understand Allah!?? 😕[/b]

no not if God wants us to understand him, which seems quite evident considering he has a record of over three thousand years of human endeavour written up, in which it is written, that we should seek for God, dont you think. Whats presumptuous about that.

Do i think i can understand it, well if it is reasonable, we should be able to grasp the precepts and tenets, if not, well, who can say?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no not if God wants us to understand him, which seems quite evident considering he has a record of over three thousand years of human endeavour written up, in which it is written, that we should seek for God, dont you think. Whats presumptuous abound that?

Do i think i can understand it, well if it is reasonable, we should be able to grasp the precepts and tenets, if not, well, who can say?

I see...So now not only your god (based of the JW interpretation of the Bible) wants you to understand it, so does Allah too! Two mutually exclusive gods want you to understand them - a mere human to understand the complexities and subtleties of infinitely powerful and intelligent beings that dwell in dimensions forever shrouded from our perception! That's much worse hubris than a rabbit thinking it can understand the workings and mindset of it's master!


Perhaps you see where I'm going here...

Originally posted by Agerg
I see...So now not only your god (based of the JW interpretation of the Bible) wants you to understand it, so does Allah too! Two mutually exclusive gods want you to understand them - a mere human to understand the complexities and subtelties of infinitely powerful and intelligent beings that dwell in dimensions forever shrouded from our perception!

Perhaps you see where I'm going here...

yes i saw it, but it fails because who is to say they are mutually exclusive? On what basis was this assertion made? I am not saying that it may not be true, all I am saying is, that you can make an evaluation, without subjecting it to your own standards of morality and dismissing it out of hand simply on the basis that you dont agree, which is what happens time and again in the forums. Very few attempts are made to understand the why! Even the assertion that they are mutually exclusive is based upon what Agers?

It would be a relatively simple, although prolonged process to examine both the holy books and make an estimation of the personalities revealed, would it not?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes i saw it, but it fails because who is to say they are mutually exclusive? On what basis was this assertion made? I am not saying that it may not be true, all I am saying is, that you can make an evaluation, without subjecting it to your own standards of morality and dismissing it out of hand simply on the basis that you dont agree, which is wha ...[text shortened]... derstand the why! Even the assertion that they are mutually exclusive is based upon what Agers?

Perhaps the fact that this one world was created in two distinctly different ways.
Perhaps the fact that Quran orders us unbelievers to all be killed is incompatible with a different god that doesn't want them to be killed until they have at least been *saved*!
Or perhaps something else should I be so inclined to go on a scripture hunt...I'm not.


As far as morality of gods, we assess the morality of your god for the same reason you assess the morality of Allah; and how rudimentary is my knowledge of either god is unimportant because in comparison to Allah, whose infinite wisdom, greatness, intelligence, power transcends us both; your "knowledge" fares little better than mine; and your knowledge about the false god you believe in (which Allah hates you for) is neither here nor there.

Originally posted by Agerg
Perhaps the fact that this one world was created in two distinctly different ways.
Perhaps the fact that Quran orders us unbelievers to all be killed is incompatible with a different god that doesn't want them to be killed until they have at least been *saved*!
Or perhaps something else should I be so inclined to go on a scripture hunt...I'm not.


As far ge about the false god you believe in (which Allah hates you for) is neither here nor there.

yes I understand that, however we must be prepared to look for reason rather than dismiss everything prior to finding that reason.

i need to go to work Agers , i work outside and its freezing! 🙁

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes I understand that, hoverer we must be prepared to look for reason rather than dismiss everything prior to finding that reason.

i need to go to work Agers , i work outside and its freezing! 🙁

There are two cases:
a) The particular god (out of an infinite number of others) you believe in is true and it's a fruitless effort trying to understand the reasons and schemes of an infinitely powerful, intelligent, wise, blah, blah... god based upon a few writings and your own internal wranglings.
b) The particular god you believe in is false and so what does it matter what it's supposed reasons were for doing X...X never happened!!!


Based upon the equi-plausibility of all gods (there really is no objective way to show one is better or more plausible than another), and trust in my own reasoning, morality, and common sense I opt for (b).

Originally posted by Agerg
There are two cases:
a) The particular god (out of an infinite number of others) you believe in is true and it's a fruitless effort trying to understand the reasons and schemes of an infinitely powerful, intelligent, wise, blah, blah... god based upon a few writings and your own internal wranglings.
b) The particular god you believe in is false and so what d ...[text shortened]... usible than another), and trust in my own reasoning, morality, and common sense I opt for (b).

actually a DI water filtration vessel in my pickup has frozen and burst, so now i can stay home and deal with you, lets see, where were we, ah yes, you were blathering on about this plausibility and that, with some attempts to justify your now tattered hypothesis! The fact of the matter is Agers me ol son, there is a personality revealed in scripture, all one needs to do is make a diligent search and evaluate it. So you see, its not a matter on existing and not existing, or of truth and falsehood, or this God and that God, for the personality can be perceived if one is willing to search for it.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
actually a DI water filtration vessel in my pickup has frozen and burst, so now i can stay home and deal with you, lets see, where were we, ah yes, you were blathering on about this plausibility and that, with some attempts to justify your now tattered hypothesis! The fact of the matter is Agers me ol son, there is a personality revealed in scriptur ...[text shortened]... this God and that God, for the personality can be perceived if one is willing to search for it.

The only thing that has any semblence of feasibility in your latest response is the statement:
a DI water filtration vessel in my pickup has frozen and burst

Nothing tattered about my hypothesis...and have you paid due deference to Allah yet? Shame on you Robbie...shame on you for not venerating the correct infinitely wonderful, wise, and merciful creator of the universe!!! 😲

Originally posted by Agerg
The only thing that has any semblence of feasibility in your latest response is the statement:
a DI water filtration vessel in my pickup has frozen and burst

Nothing tattered about my hypothesis...and have you paid due deference to Allah yet? Shame on you Robbie...shame on you for not venerating the correct infinitely wonderful, wise, and merciful creator of the universe!!! 😲

Actually i have tried to read the Koran, what I found was that it was a rather cold book, much much harder to get a handle on the personality portrayed rather than what is portrayed in the Bible. Also it does not form a coherent whole, like the Bible does, but was rather disjointed, i dont know why.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Actually i have tried to read the Koran, what I found was that it was a rather cold book, much much harder to get a handle on the personality portrayed rather than what is portrayed in the Bible. Also it does not form a coherent whole, like the Bible does, but was rather disjointed, i dont know why.

It's because as a human you are not equipped to notice and glue together the subtleties of our Great and Merciful creator (Allah). That his wonderous schemes seem disjoint to you is of no surprise at all; you should, like me, just stand back in awe of his Brilliance and just have faith!

Indeed, that the Bible presents itself to you as an easy to read text is in fact the work of Iblis himself steering you away from the Great and most Holy Allah.