30 Aug 17
Originally posted by @kellyjayAfter he had said this, Jesus was troubled in spirit and testified, “Very truly I tell you, one of you is going to betray me.”
As I said before scripture as it is written I have no issues with; however, the way you explain it leaves a lot to be desired.
22 His disciples stared at one another, at a loss to know which of them he meant. 23 One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him. 24 Simon Peter motioned to this disciple and said, “Ask him which one he means.”
25 Leaning back against Jesus, he asked him, “Lord, who is it?”
26 Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. 27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.
Originally posted by @eladarYour point?
After he had said this, Jesus was troubled in spirit and testified, “Very truly I tell you, one of you is going to betray me.”
22 His disciples stared at one another, at a loss to know which of them he meant. 23 One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him. 24 Simon Peter motioned to this disciple and said, “Ask him which one he ...[text shortened]... to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. 27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.
You are suggesting that with that bit of text that Jesus forced him to do it?
Least you forget Judas went to the priest long before that dinner to betray Christ.
Originally posted by @eladarLuke 22:2-4English Standard Version (ESV)
I am saying that when Judas took the bread given to him by Jesus, this is when Satan entered Judas.
2 And the chief priests and the scribes were seeking how to put him to death, for they feared the people.
3 Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve. 4 He went away and conferred with the chief priests and officers how he might betray him to them.
30 Aug 17
Originally posted by @eladarHow do you know what Jesus wanted?
Judas did what Jesus wanted him to do, then had Satan enter his body.
Was Jesus required to make Judas one of the 12? If not, then why did Jesus decide to include Judas knowing full well what Judas would do?
Jesus knew what was going to occur, not denying that, but I do not for a second believe
He forced it. People do evil things, Satan is evil, and they acted out of their will to do what
they wanted. If you can find a scripture that says, and Jesus FORCED this upon Judas
we can talk, but the only place that will be found is between your ears, not in scripture.
30 Aug 17
Originally posted by @kellyjayTwo different accounts of the same event?
Luke 22:2-4English Standard Version (ESV)
2 And the chief priests and the scribes were seeking how to put him to death, for they feared the people.
3 Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve. 4 He went away and conferred with the chief priests and officers how he might betray him to them.
Originally posted by @kellyjayHow do I know Jesus wanted to choose Judas? Because he chose Judas that is how I know.
How do you know what Jesus wanted?
Jesus knew what was going to occur, not denying that, but I do not for a second believe
He forced it. People do evil things, Satan is evil, and they acted out of their will to do what
they wanted. If you can find a scripture that says, and Jesus FORCED this upon Judas
we can talk, but the only place that will be found is between your ears, not in scripture.
Originally posted by @eladarHe choose Judas to be one of twelve, that does not mean He forced Him to betray Him.
How do I know Jesus wanted to choose Judas? Because he chose Judas that is how I know.
It is again foreknowledge verse force, you believe God forces people into sin and hell I do
not.
30 Aug 17
Originally posted by @kellyjayPrecisely, foreknowledge of a choice does not mean that person did not exercise free will in making that choice. If you had a time machine, you could go back and observe the choice being made that you already know was made, but in no way does that mean the choice was forced upon them.
He choose Judas to be one of twelve, that does not mean He forced Him to betray Him.
It is again foreknowledge verse force, you believe God forces people into sin and hell I do
not.
30 Aug 17
If not even christians can agree with each other - isn't it a good idea to remain a non-christian until the thing is settled?
Christians has an advantage over onon-christians: They can just pray for the correct answer. God has no reason to give different answers to different christians, does he?