13 May 19
@philokalia saidYou make a lot of unscriptural and unsubstantiated claims in this forum. Fourth time of asking you about this one...
Alright, so the question would be -- what does it say about having children if some people are told to not marry?
Sorry, I am sometimes slow on the uptake on these things, lol.
Can you explain how religious celibacy is a “huge huge huge net gain for the community”?
13 May 19
@philokalia saidJesus is saying it is better to not have children. The Israelites needed to reproduce to fullfil the promise to Abraham. Now that Jesus fulfilled the OT there is no need to have many children. Perhaps you can show the NT instructiin that all people need to be fruitful and multiply.
Alright, so the question would be -- what does it say about having children if some people are told to not marry?
Sorry, I am sometimes slow on the uptake on these things, lol.
14 May 19
@eladar saidI have never heard this argument before... I had always just assumed that this was a passage with universal application, as it was stated before the formation of the nation of Israel and thus would fit into the general words for the whole of humanity.
Jesus is saying it is better to not have children. The Israelites needed to reproduce to fullfil the promise to Abraham. Now that Jesus fulfilled the OT there is no need to have many children. Perhaps you can show the NT instructiin that all people need to be fruitful and multiply.
But, I can see how... interpretations of this could vary.
I did some searching about this and I did not actually see any specific references to [i]be fruitful and multiply in a physical birth sense that it has in the Old Testaemtn, yet the New Testament does have references to the concept:
https://davidschrock.com/2017/12/27/be-fruitful-and-multiply-a-canonical-reading/
I guess I would personally lean towards supporting large families for Christians but I would also not assert myself and say that people who fail to have half a dozen kids are missing the mark.
14 May 19
1 edit
@Philokalia
So you agree no instruction to have large families in the NT but we do have instruction not to have kids at all if we can live a life without sex.
The link you gave talks about a spiritual transition in the NT. Be fruitful now means make converts to Christ.