Jesus vs. God

Originally posted by twhitehead
It is never ever OK to kill your own babies, or anyone else's for that matter. Nor were the various genocides the Jews supposedly carried out OK. And in case you didn't read it right, the Bible says that the Jews were killing babies on Gods orders. Do you think that was OK?

If it save them from eternal hellfire then yes. They will get to reign with Jesus for 1,000 years.

Originally posted by chaney3
Very good Robbie. I think that a lot of arrogance is posted here....maybe because what I have found is that when someone is asked about Jesus being God......there is really NO answer......and an ensuing fight is on hand. I want to share a personal story: Years back, I was on the phone with my dad (he was drunk), and we were debating this issue. But, he s ...[text shortened]... ..to end with a funny note.......did Jesus get a hard on when looking at human women?? I would.

Jesus is Jehovah
Jesus is God
There is one God, who is triune—the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, co-existing and coinhering in three persons, or hypostases, distinct but never separate, from eternity to eternity

That settle it. Period 😏

Originally posted by chaney3
where is God??????

At the Cross!

Originally posted by kevinlee123
Jesus is Jehovah
Jesus is God
There is one God, who is triune—the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, co-existing and coinhering in three persons, or hypostases, distinct but never separate, from eternity to eternity

That settle it. Period 😏

God in the Old Testament never, ever mentioned this. It was fabricated in the New Testament. It is NOT possible for a human to understand the Trinity. Your description is that of a 5 year old. Did Santa Claus help you with this???

Originally posted by chaney3
God in the Old Testament never, ever mentioned this. It was fabricated in the New Testament. It is NOT possible for a human to understand the Trinity. Your description is that of a 5 year old. Did Santa Claus help you with this???

He sure did and I'm happy.

Originally posted by chaney3
I am not at all a Bible scholar......but just wanted to add my opinion on this. I believe that you are correct in that everything in the Old Testament has been re-interpreted to the coming of the 'Messiah'. However.......I have asked.....what exactly is the 'Messiah'?? A savior?? I have read the Old Testament, and it NEVER says that God Himself will be t ...[text shortened]... f. Not to mention how 250,000 people die from an earthquake and tsunami......where is God??????

I recommend a book to you: "The Jesus Dynasty" by James D. Tabor. Simon & Schuster, 2006. I believe it will give you a framework which will allow you to start asking the right questions. Get the question right first, before you go off half-cocked beating the bushes for answers. Such as "What did the Jews at the turn of the millennium understand by the term 'messiah'?"

Originally posted by chaney3
Okay, first.....I didn't 'duck' out....I went to bed. Second, I have read what you have posted and it ALL is up to an interpretation. If YOU are SO sure that Jesus is God.....then why on earth is anybody still worshiping Buddah? Obviously, not everyone on the planet agrees with you. Furthermore.....I am not trying to solve some quaint math problem here.. ...[text shortened]... . If YOU know everything about God and Jesus, then you should tell the world and save everyone.

I have no idea why the people who worship Buddah do so, but I'm sure it has nothing to do with what I believe either way and why on earth would I expect everyone on the entire planet to agree with me? My faith is not based on how many people agree with me or don't agree with me, in fact I couldn't care less.

Your increasingly shrill frustrations won't help you get closer to the truth which is accomplished through hearing the word ["faith comes through hearing the word"] What happens to your soul is your responsibility and between you and whatever version of God you decide to land on.

I'm not lecturing you chaney3; you came to this message board looking for a discussion, you started a thread on a topic and people are giving you their opinions. Your inability to accept truth or your discomfort with discarding what you see to be error, is a function of the condition of your own mind, not mine.

Originally posted by moonbus
One step at a time.

The whole of the OT was re-interpreted and redacted by Christians to be one long drawn out prediction leading up to the coming of the Messiah. The Jews, whose Book that is, don't see it that way. So I don't see that your OT references support the claim that Jesus and God are identical, and I'm not alone in that. Jews and Muslims also r ...[text shortened]... in the NT and again in the Koran. Either way, the religion in the middle looks untenable.

I'm not asking you to belive anything, I'm merely explaining why I belive what I do. It's quite odd that while you disregard the scriptures I cited explaining my belief, you feel that recounting a tale from a book you once read will somehow leave an impression on me.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I dont think so infact he seems to be calling attention to your ability to believe nothing but your own propaganda. Once again you seem incapable of rational thought, the issue has nothing to do with Jehovahs witnesses, duel saviors or any other silly notion that you care to fabricate and has everything to do with the fact that you cannot provide a ...[text shortened]... God unsubstantiated, unreasonable, irrational and not supported by a single Biblical reference.

I've cited significant scriptural references to support my belief, so it's hardly "propaganda" is it.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the OP has already pointed out that there is not a single verse in the entire Bible where Jesus claims that he is God and many more besides which demonstrate the absurdity of the proposition.

I've given several scriptures which prove you to be in error with this statement.

Originally posted by chaney3
I am not at all a Bible scholar......but just wanted to add my opinion on this. I believe that you are correct in that everything in the Old Testament has been re-interpreted to the coming of the 'Messiah'. However.......I have asked.....what exactly is the 'Messiah'?? A savior?? I have read the Old Testament, and it NEVER says that God Himself will be t ...[text shortened]... f. Not to mention how 250,000 people die from an earthquake and tsunami......where is God??????

Do you classify yourself as a Christian, JW, or if not what is your religious affiliation?

Originally posted by chaney3
There are hundreds of scriptures where Jesus is praying to God the Father. That implies that Jesus is praying to 'somebody else'. In the garden....Jesus asks 'God' if this cup can be passed....meaning....did He have to die on the cross. Jesus was talking to 'somebody else'...

Mark 14:36: "Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt." (my italics)

This shows what being one with God means: it means submitting one's own will to that of the divine will, it means willing what God wills. It clearly cannot mean that one is God. Many mystics have made exactly the same assertion, of being one with God. Or "at one with God" is perhaps a less misleading phrase. A number of mystics were put to death for claiming to be one with God, precisely because the churchmen did not understand this, the churchmen took them to be saying they were God--which would, of course, be blasphemy.

If you have ever ridden a horse, perhaps you know the feeling of being (at) one with the horse. It means anticipating its every move, and it yours. It does not mean you are, or think you are, a centaur.

Mark 14:36 could not be plainer: Jesus is addressing the divine will, something he takes to be separate from himself, but to which he is prepared to submit. That moment when Jesus prays in the garden is one of the most powerful scenes ever written. He knows he will be betrayed by one of his disciples, subjected to 'enhanced interrogation techniques', and put to a horrible death. He struggles to conform his own will to that of the divine will. And it was bloody terrifying, knowing what God expected of him. "Take away this bitter cup from me..." is the voice of a terrified man crying out. Whereas "... nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt" is the voice of a prophet who sees himself as an instrument of a separate and higher will.

"I could take this bitter cup from myself, but I won't because I will it so" is nonsense.

Originally posted by chaney3 to robbie carrobie
...did Jesus get a hard on when looking at human women?

I look forward to robbie's response.

Originally posted by moonbus
The whole of the OT was re-interpreted and redacted by Christians to be one long drawn out prediction leading up to the coming of the Messiah.

Actually, it was the other way around. The NT was written based on the OT.

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm not asking you to belive anything, I'm merely explaining why I belive what I do. It's quite odd that while you disregard the scriptures I cited explaining my belief, you feel that recounting a tale from a book you once read will somehow leave an impression on me.

The passages you cite do not support your claim, that Jesus himself claimed he was God. He described himself as the Son of Man, endowed by the Father with certain powers (e.g. to raise the dead) and authority (e.g. to fulfill prophecies). The attribution of godhead was made by others against him, in order to get him charged with blasphemy. The Romans would have nothing to do with it; they didn't care whether he said he was God. What the Romans cared about was putting down a rebellion; so his detractors added that Jesus had called himself a king, which was tantamount to sedition under Roman law at that time. That was something the Romans cared about.

“For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” (John 10:33, NASB). That's not Jesus talking about himself; that is a report about what his detractors said about him, to get the Romans to do away with him.

<<Speaking of his resurrection and saying that HE would raise himself up, not a separate God. "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up… but he spake of the temple of his body” (John 2:19, 21, KJV).>> Read the bit which precedes the bit you quoted: The Jews then said to Him, "What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?" His 'sign' is that he is acting in the name of and by authority of the Father, by employing the power (for example, that of raising the dead) which the Father has bestowed upon him--not that he is the Father.