14 Jul 09
3 edits
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Christ has an answer for the problem of sin and death. He has an answer to the problem of my existence, why I am here.
Jesus Christ offers me total peace as to my sinful past and empowering grace for the present as well as undying hope for the future.
Christ offers me transformation into His glorious image. I can see it happening and others around me can also.
Christ offers me the gift of eternal life and the love of a family of brothers and sisters in Christ around the world. He offers me sweet fellowship and oneness with millions of fellow believers.
Christ offers me what I firmly believe is the truth about life as opposed to so many missteps and outright lies of the blind leading the blind.
Christ offers me the salvation of my being and the the environment of this world in which I live - a world to come free from sin, death, and unrighteousness where there are tears no more.
Christ offers me a life meaningful from second to second and adventure to be one with Him in God's eternal plan. Christ offers me the assurance of final victory and joy in my heart the carries me through trials and tribulations of every kind. He has never let me down.
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ThinkoOne says that these are all too self centered and selfish reasons for believing in Christ.
So tell me ThinkoOne,
If I were to become an Atheistic or Agnostic Socialist would that be better for me ?
But if it is "better" for me then wouldn't that still be being self centered to drop my faith in Christ and pick up a superior Atheist/Agnostic Socialism ? Would that be a change in state from an inferior one to a superior one to move from Christian to ie. atheistic Socialist ?
How come it is OK to desire a good benefit for yourself to be a Socialist but it is not OK to desire a good benefit for yourself to be Christian ?
15 Jul 09
3 edits
Originally posted by jaywill[/b]Why the continued use of deceit? Are you incapable of making an honest post?
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Christ has an answer for the problem of sin and death. He has an answer to the problem of my existence, why I am here.
Jesus Christ offers me total peace as to my sinful past and empowering grace for the present as well as undying hope for the future.
Christ offers me transformation into His glorious image. I a Socialist but it is not OK to desire a good benefit for [b]yourself to be Christian ?[/b]
ThinkoOne says that these are all too self centered and selfish reasons for believing in Christ.
I never said this. I said that your post indicated an extremely self-centered view. Why do you twist what I said by putting words in my mouth?
If I were to become an Atheistic or Agnostic Socialist would that be better for me ? But if it is "better" for me then wouldn't that still be being self centered to drop my faith in Christ and pick up a superior Atheist/Agnostic Socialism ? Would that be a change in state from an inferior one to a superior one to move from Christian to ie. atheistic Socialist ?
Where did you get this from? Did I say anything to suggest the you become atheist? agnostic? Socialist? Did I even mention any of those three terms. Why the pretense?
Why don't you address the issues and questions I brought up in my post instead of trying to make it about something else?
Once again, if "God is Truth", what does your continued use of deceit say about your respect for God?
I don't get it jaywill. Almost every post you make affirms your self-centeredness as well as your dishonesty. What's up with that? Is this where your brand of "Christianity" has taken you?
15 Jul 09
8 edits
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI appeared to have confused ThinkoOne with another poster. I think that poster was Rwingett. Sorry for that confusion.
Why the continued use of deceit? Are you incapable of making an honest post?
ThinkoOne says that these are all too self centered and selfish reasons for believing in Christ.
I never said this. I said that your post indicated an extremely self-centered view. Why do you twist what I said by putting words in my mouth?
If I were to be onesty. What's up with that? Is this where your brand of "Christianity" has taken you?
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Why don't you address the issues and questions I brought up in my post instead of trying to make it about something else?
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I mixed you up with rwingett. I asked you repeatedly to SPECIFY which post of yours you felt I did not address. You wouldn't tell me. You wouldn't paste it. When I selected some and asked, I received no answer.
If you don't like (Atheistic/ Agnostic Socialist) substitute whatever your philosophy IS which you think is better than Christ. The point remains that same.
If you have something better (which I don't recall you admitting you did, along with TJack) going to that philosophy is also being concerned for personal benefit.
So the too self centered, excessive personal benefit argument doesn't impress me.
You seemed terribly upset that I mentioned "the larger framework" of universal benefit of my salvation. You seemed suspicious of my timing in writing that.
That is a false charge, that my timing was underhanded. That's your wishful thinking to attrach immorality to me in this discussion. In fact the very reason why I listed not one but several benefits of being a Christian was to show that it was a multifaceted matter, not just one aspect - "O boy, I get to go to Heaven" but one invoving purpose and communion and fellowship and meaning to human life, not just going off to a happy place.
If that seems "self centered" to you, that's tough for you. So is my breathing self centered then. So is my heart beating self centered then. So is my staying alive self centered then. So is my having a family self centered then.
I don't think you or TarrierJack have anything that exceeds Jesus Christ in value or preciousness to my sense. And if you may go on to be mad that my enthusiasm for the Gospel aggravates you, you have to deal with that yourself.
And I am finished reading you. I am finished writing to you.
16 Jul 09
Originally posted by jaywillYou finished writing to all of us?or just those mentioned in your post? (what drama)
I appeared to have confused ThinkoOne with another poster. I think that poster was Rwingett. Sorry for that confusion.
[b]======================
Why don't you address the issues and questions I brought up in my post instead of trying to make it about something else?
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I mixed you up with rwingett. I asked y ...[text shortened]... h that yourself.
And I am finished reading you. I am finished writing to you.[/b]
16 Jul 09
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillI asked you repeatedly to SPECIFY which post of yours you felt I did not address. You wouldn't tell me. You wouldn't paste it. When I selected some and asked, I received no answer.
I appeared to have confused ThinkoOne with another poster. I think that poster was Rwingett. Sorry for that confusion.
[b]======================
Why don't you address the issues and questions I brought up in my post instead of trying to make it about something else?
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I mixed you up with rwingett. I asked y h that yourself.
And I am finished reading you. I am finished writing to you.[/b]
I notice that you somehow figured out which post it was. Imagine that. Like I said earlier, I don't see much point in spoon feeding you when you can find it yourself. With your childish theatrics, I didn't think an answer was necessary. I did respond to the one after that though and now I'm looking at yet another effort to dodge addressing the post.
If you don't like (Atheistic/ Agnostic Socialist) substitute whatever your philosophy IS which you think is better than Christ. The point remains that same.
If you have something better (which I don't recall you admitting you did, along with TJack) going to that philosophy is also being concerned for personal benefit.
So the too self centered, excessive personal benefit argument doesn't impress me.
You seemed terribly upset that I mentioned "the larger framework" of universal benefit of my salvation. You seemed suspicious of my timing in writing that.
That is a false charge, that my timing was underhanded. That's your wishful thinking to attrach immorality to me in this discussion. In fact the very reason why I listed not one but several benefits of being a Christian was to show that it was a multifaceted matter, not just one aspect - "O boy, I get to go to Heaven" but one invoving purpose and communion and fellowship and meaning to human life, not just going off to a happy place.
If that seems "self centered" to you, that's tough for you. So is my breathing self centered then. So is my heart beating self centered then. So is my staying alive self centered then. So is my having a family self centered then.
I don't think you or TarrierJack have anything that exceeds Jesus Christ in value or preciousness to my sense. And if you may go on to be mad that my enthusiasm for the Gospel aggravates you, you have to deal with that yourself.
For one, I'm not "mad", "angry", "upset", etc. What I keep pointing out to you is the ridiculousness of your posting a completely self-centered response to TJ's assertion that many Christians that Christians are more concerned about their "personal salvation" than about loving one's neighbor and being good stewards of this planet. It was absurd.
The fact that you continue to use deceit and dishonesty in the face of posts pointing out your deceit and dishonesty is also absurd.
Why don't you just admit that you've been self-centered and deceitful and turn over a new leaf? You continually deny your self-centeredness and deceitfullness, yet in almost every post you make trying to defend yourself contains more examples self-centeredness and deceit. This is also absurd.
Why don't you follow the teachings of Jesus instead of your brand of Christianity? Why don't you just humbly obey His commandments instead of making it about what YOU GET? If you did, you would place loving one's neighbor and being good stewards of this planet above what YOU GET. Funny how following the teachings of Jesus would get you to the place you need to be. The place that TJ suggested you should be.
17 Jul 09
2 edits
Originally posted by jaywillAMEN to that.
Proof is different from persuasion. You know?
It is said that Jesus presented Himself to His disciples with [b]"many irrefutable proofs" (Acts 1:3) over a period of forty days.[/b]
The New Testament also candidly says that some of His disciples doubted after the resurrection (Matt. 28:17).
Proof is not persuasion.[/b]
Jesus said (Luke 16:31) that those who can't (won't?) hear wouldn't be convinced--even if the dead were raised right in front of their very eyes.
Jesus spent a good bit of time talking about those who "hear" and those who don't... the implication being that there are many who hear the words but refuse to believe. That cannot be overcome by any proof.
It's argued time and time again, "If Jesus would just reveal Himself," or "If Jesus would just tap me on the shoulder," and so on. Yeah right. If that did happen, it would be on to the next excuse.
And I don't mean that bitterly, I mean it seriously. My personal take on it is, those who don't hear, literally can't hear. They can't help but refuse the message and it has to do with the state of being, spiritually.
I was there. I remember all too well.
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17 Jul 09
Originally posted by sumydidCongratulations! You just said what every proselytizing religion says about those who reject their teaching. When will you be prepared to see the truth of Islam?
AMEN to that.
Jesus said (Luke 16:31) that those who can't (won't?) hear wouldn't be convinced--even if the dead were raised right in front of their very eyes.
Jesus spent a good bit of time talking about those who "hear" and those who don't... the implication being that there are many who hear the words but refuse to believe. That cannot be overcome ...[text shortened]... o with the state of being, spiritually.
I was there. I remember all too well.