@divegeester saidJesus Christ did not exist at the creation. The Son of God was at the creation with God His Father. God was not alone in the beginning before the creation. God was accompanied by the billions of the heavenly host and the Son of God was there at the creation as well.
It’s a good question, and nothing to do with Witness Lee.
Your position will be that it supports the notion that even before creation God is three distinct people/persons, evidenced by the text indicating that one of these people/persons speaks to another two persons with the suggestion “come, let’s us make man in our image”.
So stop for a moment and think that th ...[text shortened]... nifested - as a man, as a (metaphorical) dove, as pillar of smoke, as Melchesidek. He is one entity.
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
(Colossians 1:13-19 KJV)
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“The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”
Today I have become ... The Son is not eternal.
Some paraphrased versions read that way.
I think the better translation is -
"This day I have BEGOTTEN You"
ESV - I have begotten you
Berean Literal - today I have begotten You
KJV - Today I have begotten You
NASB1977 TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN THEE
NASB1997 TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU
Amplified TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN (fathered) YOU
AVS This day have I begotten thee
CEV today I have become your Father
ERV This day have I begotten thee
Recovery Version "You are My Son, this day I have begotten You"
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Some versions do say "I have become you"
This day refers to the day of Christ's resurrection. (Acts 13:33)
The Apostle Paul referred to Christ's resurrection with Psalm 2.
His being resurrected was the Father begetting Him as the FIRSTBORN Son.
This is not the begetting of the only begotten Son.
This is the begetting of the Firstborn Son in resurrection.
Though God did declare His Son at conception and at baptism it was in resurrection that Paul says God designated Him the Firstborn Son to be followed by many brothers also in resurrection. All the saved are to be conformed to the image of the Firstborn Son among many brothers (Rom. 8:29).
"His Son . . . Who was designated the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness out of the resurrection of the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord." (Rom. 1:4)
Christ was the Son in eternity. And the Father announced His Son in various parts of His ministry on earth. But it is clear that in resurrection He was declared the Firstborn Son of God because in resurrection He heads a new humanity of saved, transformed, sanctified, glorified sons [plural] of God Whom He leads as the Elder Brother.
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Christ as the only begotten Son is eternal.
Without beginning of days or end of life.
The Word in John 1:1 did not become God. But was with God and was God from eternity.
The Word, the Logos is the Son of God.
"And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us (and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only Begotten from the Father, full of grace and reality" (John 1:14)
"No one has ever seen God; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him." (John :18)
@sonship saidYou are saying it wrong and inserting your own words hence your continued mistakes. Here Paul likens the Melchisedec, king of Salem, with the Son of God. It is not clear whether the Son of God is eternal neither is it clear that he was created.
Christ as the only begotten Son is eternal.
Without beginning of days or end of life.
The Word in John 1:1 did not become God. But was with God and was God from eternity.
The Word, the Logos is the Son of God.
"And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us (and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only Begotten from the Father, full of grace ...[text shortened]... God; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him." (John :18)
For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. (Hebrews 7:1-3 KJV)
Melchisedec, king of Salem, WAS MADE, The Son of God WAS ALSO MADE
That means created. But it also says neither beginning of days nor end of life, implying they were eternal.
This passage makes the issue inconlusive and only an unbiased person will recognise that it is not clear. The bias comes when you try to blindly support the doctrine of your church by ignoring contradicting references.
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You are saying it wrong and inserting your own words hence your continued mistakes. Here Paul likens the Melchisedec, king of Salem, with the Son of God. It is not clear whether the Son of God is eternal neither is it clear that he was created.
Melchisedec, the priest of the Most High God mysteriously arrives on the scene in Genesis. Here is a priest before Levi was born or had any sons. This mysterious priest has no lineage mentioned. No beginning of days makes him like the Son of God.
Christ the Son of God was born as a man. But Micah the prophet says that this Person's goings forth were from eternity.
" . . . O Bethlehem . . . From you there will come forth to Me He who is to be Ruler in Israel; And His goings forth are from ancient times, from the days of eternity." (See Micah 5:2)
In Hebrews "made like the Son of God" leans much more more towards Melchisidek, in the prose and in the literature "made like". He is portrayed like the eternal Son of God - always being and thus eternal. No mother or father and no genealogy was indicated for this high priest.
If this is arguable, it is not arguable that the Word who was with God was God. So as long as God was the Word was - eternal. (John 1:1)
Of the three of the Godhead, Christ is said to be the image of God.
So mysteriously Christ predates man and not the other way around.
Man was created and made according to Christ.
"Let Us make man in Our image"
Christ is the image of the invisible God -
"[Christ] Who is the image of the invisible God . . . " (Col. 1:15)
" . . . the glory of Christ, who is the image of God . . ." (2 Cor. 4:4)
@sonship saidYou continue to say it wrong.
@Rajk999You are saying it wrong and inserting your own words hence your continued mistakes. Here Paul likens the Melchisedec, king of Salem, with the Son of God. It is not clear whether the Son of God is eternal neither is it clear that he was created.
Melchisedec, the priest of the Most High God mysteriously arrives on the scene in Genesis. Here is a p ...[text shortened]... Col. 1:15)[/b]
" . . . the glory of Christ, who is the image of God . . ." (2 Cor. 4:4)
Jesus Christ predates man, NO
Jesus Christ was born of Mary. YES
The Son of God predates man, YES
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You continue to say it wrong.
Jesus Christ predates man, NO
Jesus Christ was born of Mary. YES
The Son of God predates man, YES
Jesus Christ AS the Son of God told the Jews - "Before Abraham came into being I AM." (John 8:58)
"Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, Before Abraham came into being, I am."
This was before Mary was born and had her firstborn child.
In this sense Jesus Christ predates Mary and Abraham.
The Word who became flesh predates all creation as God being eternal would.
@sonship saidAt the creation there was no Jesus Christ.
@Rajk999
You continue to say it wrong.
Jesus Christ predates man, NO
Jesus Christ was born of Mary. YES
The Son of God predates man, YES
Jesus Christ AS the Son of God told the Jews - "Before Abraham came into being I AM." (John 8:58)
"Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, Before Abraham came into being, I am."
This was before Mar ...[text shortened]... dates Mary and Abraham.
The Word who became flesh predates all creation as God being eternal would.
There was God, the Son of God, the angels etc.
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At the creation there was no Jesus Christ.
There was God, the Son of God, the angels etc.
That certainly cannot be true in every sense.
Peter wrote of "the Spirit of Christ" that was in the old testament prophets.
[my bolding]
1 Peter 1:11
“Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.”
King James Version (KJV)
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1-Peter-1-11/
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It is true that the man Jesus was not born yet in Genesis 1:1.
But the Spirit of God was there. And the Spirit of God even before incarnation Peter referred to as "the Spirit of Christ"
1 Peter 1:11
“Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.”
Now there is only ONE divine and eternal Spirit who is God.
So the Spirit of Christ before the incarnation of the man Jesus is in some sense Jesus Christ pre-existing His birth from the human womb of Mary.
Micah did say that the Messiah King of Israel born in Bethlehem has His goings from from days of eternity (Micah 5:2)
No one said that the Bible is always easy to understand.
So if God created man in His image it was in the image of Christ.
And when He did so He said "Let Us make man in Our, according to Our likeness . . ." (Gen. 1:26) God was making man according to Jesus Christ.
He did not create man to sin and fall. He created man to have His own image and exercise His own dominion over His creation.
" . . . Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of heaven and over the cattle and over all the earth . . . "