Originally posted by divegeesterWhat is with you being SO specific to someone's 'designated' belief label. I was asking a question that pertains to the human capacity of Jesus (the human), and frankly, it is a valid question. The question was not designed to offend a 'committed Jehovah's Witness', it was asked because I was struggling with the 'Jesus is God' issue. It didn't help that I had more than a few pints in me at the time, and didn't really care what divegeester's holier than thou attitude would think of the question, but nevertheless, it begs the question of the 10,000 things we have no idea about the human Jesus.
Robbie carrobie also showed you some respect and you responded by asking him if he thought Jesus ever got a hard-on. Is that sort of question to a committed Jehovah's Witness representative of you showing genuine interest?
There are stories about Jesus the child killing another child in a tantrum, or the Jesus had a wife story, and children......which all contradict what we have in our 'Holy Bible' right now.
I am not an atheist, but I have NO label for my belief in God. And, I find it rather comforting that I can question what is in the Bible.
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Originally posted by chaney3"The question was not designed to offend..."
What is with you being SO specific to someone's 'designated' belief label. I was asking a question that pertains to the human capacity of Jesus (the human), and frankly, it is a valid question. The question was not designed to offend a 'committed Jehovah's Witness', it was asked because I was struggling with the 'Jesus is God' issue. It didn't help that I ...[text shortened]... or my belief in God. And, I find it rather comforting that I can question what is in the Bible.
BS. Simple BS, dude.
"And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise." -- Luke 10:25-37, KJV
Rajk, this section of Luke 10 is right after the other section about the 70 disciples. Certainly you cannot claim that this section is not for everyone. Clearly, this is about who should be counted as one's "neighbor", and so it's clear that this is an explanation of his command to everyone to "Love your neighbor as yourself". Since this section follows so closely after the previous section, I would imagine that you've read this section too.
Martin Luther King, Jr. once said, "The first question which the priest and the Levite asked was: 'If I stop to help this man, what will happen to me?' But the good Samaritan reversed the question: 'If I do not stop to help this man, what will happen to him?'"
And this is the essence of Christ's command to "Love thy neighbor as thyself."
Since you seem to take pride in stating that doing works and following the commandments of Christ will pay the price of your admission to the Kingdom of God, one might be excused in thinking that you do as the Good Samaritan in this example did. When was the last time you acted as this Samaritan did, taking great pains to help the stricken man recover his senses and dignity and eventually sending the man on his way? You must do this with some regularity because you follow the commandments of Christ, do you not?
Or perhaps you actually do not as this Samaritan did. Perhaps you do not actually follow every commandment of Christ as you spend a great deal of time in this forum exhorting Christians to do. You actually take us to task for not following Christ's commandments (even though you know next to nothing about us or exactly what we do or do not), even as you yourself fall as short as you imagine we do, and as you chastise us for. Certainly this is not loving your neighbor as you love yourself.
I think if I were a pot like you, I'd spend some time at least washing up before calling all us kettles black.
Originally posted by chaney3I could't care less what you say to carrobie, in fact at the time I thought that him briefly befriending you was purely him being partisan as you were arguing with me about something. I was quite looking forward to seeing his response to your question when he returned, but unfortunately he let it go. No, I'm not being holier than thou at all.
What is with you being SO specific to someone's 'designated' belief label. I was asking a question that pertains to the human capacity of Jesus (the human), and frankly, it is a valid question. The question was not designed to offend a 'committed Jehovah's Witness', it was asked because I was struggling with the 'Jesus is God' issue. It didn't help that I ...[text shortened]... or my belief in God. And, I find it rather comforting that I can question what is in the Bible.
I'm questioning your motives and sincerity regarding your posting here. I think you like to stir the pot a bit and tried to hide behind being a Christian of sorts, but you got sussed out pretty quickly. You know all the contradictions and challenges there are within the Bible and Christianity sure, but asking "why is the sky blue" or "why has that man got a black face" type of questions while hiding behind a fake Chrisitan veneer won't get you far in here I'm afraid.
Originally posted by divegeesterI have questions regarding faith, God, Jesus and the Bible. If asking questions 'stirs' up the pot....then so be it. I have never said that I claim to be a Christian, however, if and when I gather enough information to make a decision.....maybe that is what I will be....I don't know.
I could't care less what you say to carrobie, in fact at the time I thought that him briefly befriending you was purely him being partisan as you were arguing with me about something. I was quite looking forward to seeing his response to your question when he returned, but unfortunately he let it go. No, I'm not being holier than thou at all.
I'm que ...[text shortened]... e of questions while hiding behind a fake Chrisitan veneer won't get you far in here I'm afraid.
And for YOUR information......I am not asking questions to get your approval, I am investigating. Furthermore, I am not looking to 'get very far' in here. You divegeester must think you are THE authority here in this spirituality forum, and that you ultimately decide who is to be 'accepted' into the forum special group of posters.
How about if you try to decide where and how the 'origin of sin' came from, and make a comment or two on that.......and leave the special, fraternity posting thing where it belongs.....in the garbage.
Originally posted by chaney3But you have claimed that "our only knowledge of God" comes from the OT and NT of the Bible. What other religion apart from Christianity ~ or what other kind of person other than a Christian ~ cites that combination - OT/NT Bible - as the only source of "knowledge of God"?
I have never said that I claim to be a Christian....
Originally posted by FMFNot that anybody else besides you actually care about what I may have said, but it is my belief that our knowledge of God comes from the Old Testament. Our 'additional' knowledge of God comes from the New Testament.....through Jesus Christ. I am not fully convinced that Jesus IS God, which is why I don't put a label on my beliefs. I may have been asking numerous questions on the subject of Jesus, but it is with a sincere desire to learn.
But you have claimed that "our only knowledge of God" comes from the OT and NT of the Bible. What other religion apart from Christianity ~ or what other kind of person other than a Christian ~ cites that combination - OT/NT Bible - as the [b]only source of "knowledge of God"?[/b]
I want to know what a Jehovah Witness believes, because I don't think they believe that Jesus is God....and I want to know why. If you ask me if a JW is a Christian, I would say that I don't know.....because I am still not certain what 'qualifies' a person to be a Christian. Do you need to believe that Jesus IS God, or part of a trinity? Or, can you simply believe that Jesus was/is the Son of God.....as He stated 100's of times in the New Testament.
Originally posted by chaney3I'll ask again. If you do not claim to be a Christian, why do you assert that "our only knowledge of God" comes from the OT and NT of the Bible?
Not that anybody else besides you actually care about what I may have said, but it is my belief that our knowledge of God comes from the Old Testament. Our 'additional' knowledge of God comes from the New Testament.....through Jesus Christ. I am not fully convinced that Jesus IS God, which is why I don't put a label on my beliefs. I may have been asking n ...[text shortened]... y believe that Jesus was/is the Son of God.....as He stated 100's of times in the New Testament.
Originally posted by FMFBecause the God of the Bible is the only God that I know. I read your question numerous times before I answered it, and realize that my answer could pose problems for myself.
I'll ask again. If you do not claim to be a Christian, why do you assert that "our only knowledge of God" comes from the OT and NT of the Bible?
Originally posted by chaney3On what basis do you justify your seemingly arbitrary claim that "our only knowledge of God" comes from the OT and NT of the Bible? Surely, if you can believe that ~ while at the same time believing that the "Bible is false, and man made" ~ then you can just as easily make arbitrary claims about "the origin of sin, whether good works get you into Heaven, or if believing that once Jesus was crucified, that we are all saved" or even declare those concepts or issues to be "BS" along with the rest of the Bible, as you already have done on Thread 164613, right?
Because the God of the Bible is the only God that I know. I read your question numerous times before I answered it, and realize that my answer could pose problems for myself.
Originally posted by FMFI'm not sure what you're looking for here. The God of the Bible is the only God I know, as I just said. That doesn't mean I have to agree with or be happy with any of the scripture that I have read. It is apparent that there are numerous interpretations and understanding of the Bible, which is why there is divide among believers. Aside from calling my Creator.......a Creator, I have given Him a name.....God, which is in the Bible.
On what basis do you justify your seemingly arbitrary claim that "our only knowledge of God" comes from the OT and NT of the Bible? Surely, if you can believe that ~ while at the same time believing that the "Bible is false, and man made" ~ then you can just as easily make arbitrary claims about "the origin of sin, whether good works get you into Heaven, or if b ...[text shortened]... long with the rest of the Bible, as you already have done on Thread 164613, right?
If you are seeking a solid, well educated debate from me regarding theism as it pertains to the Bible, then you are looking in the wrong place. I get more confused about God every time I open up the Bible which only produces frustration and even further questions.
Originally posted by chaney3Well look at it again, because you have simply ignored the question. In fact it is a two part question. Like divegeester, I'm afraid I have to question your motivation for posting what you post. On one hand you say you are here "...with a sincere desire to learn" but on the other hand you just insult people, and you dodge point blank questions responding directly to your questions and comments.
I'm not sure what you're looking for here.
On what basis do you claim that "our only knowledge of God" comes from the Bible? And if, as you say, the "Bible is false, and man made", then what possible use can "man made" interpretations of it have for you? How won't they be "BS" too, if "the Bible is BS", as you have claimed?
Originally posted by chaney3Well there are several posters in this thread alone taking issue with you now; Suzianne is on your case as well it seems.
I have questions regarding faith, God, Jesus and the Bible. If asking questions 'stirs' up the pot....then so be it. I have never said that I claim to be a Christian, however, if and when I gather enough information to make a decision.....maybe that is what I will be....I don't know.
And for YOUR information......I am not asking questions to get your ap ...[text shortened]... that.......and leave the special, fraternity posting thing where it belongs.....in the garbage.
Perhaps you are having difficulties because you are having "too many pints" when you are posting, as you said. I don't know, but what I do know is, at the very least that you are not being in any way coherent in your questioning as FMF has succinctly pointed out.
In another thread you said you were "in dire need of some atheists to help you out" (or words to that effect) when you found yourself with your metaphorical pants at your knees in some exchanges; well there are several atheists in this forum who I'm sure will be willing to help you. I suggest calling out @twhitehead in the first instance and see how you get on.
Originally posted by chaney3Yes, you do because you claimed that the Bible said it. There are some here who know that the Bible would not say that simply because the Bible says that there are some who were perfect before God, there are many that pleased God and there were even more described as righteous in the eyes of God.
Are you serious? I really need a Bible verse to say that we will always sin?
Your claim that the Bible says that we have to sin no matter how hard we try is simply not true.