Mediator between spiritual and sensual

@secondson said
Is the infinite compressible by a finite mind?

There is a "mediator" between man and God, and it ain't music. The mediator is the "incorporeal" Spirit of God, in conjunction with the Word of God, that makes "born again" believers "partakers of the divine nature" and sharing in "the mind of Christ" "who is the image of the invisible God".

The entirety of the concepts r ...[text shortened]... which, "...mankind cannot comprehend."

You deny Christ, therefore the experience is denied you.

It may not work for everyone, and certainly won't work for philistines, but I have no doubt whatsover that music can be spiritually uplifting, profoundly so. If you reckon you have some kindof a "supernatural" mind, and not a mere "natural" one, and if this has something to do with why you think music offers no degree of overlap between the sensual and the spiritual, so be it.

@fmf said
Another "mediator" for me has always been the interiors of cathedrals. And so... listening to Arvo Pärt while sitting in Tours cathedral it was... ecstatic, euphoric, sublime, transporting!

For me...sitting in the cathedral of nature, the work of God's hands, in the silence from the sound of man, did I hear the "incorporeal" "still small voice" of my maker, and through the "mediator" of His Son Jesus Christ, was I filled with His Spirit, separating my spirit from the temporal confines of a merely ecstatic, euphoric and corporeal bodily experience.

@secondson said
For me...sitting in the cathedral of nature, the work of God's hands, in the silence from the sound of man, did I hear the "incorporeal" "still small voice" of my maker, and through the "mediator" of His Son Jesus Christ, was I filled with His Spirit, separating my spirit from the temporal confines of a merely ecstatic, euphoric and corporeal bodily experience.

Sounds nice. But then there are people for whom music is more spiritually inspiring and uplifting than the silence you talk of. Maybe, for them, Beethoven's so-called "supercilious" adage rings true.

@fmf said
Sounds nice. But then there are people for whom music is more spiritually inspiring and uplifting than the silence you talk of. Maybe, for them, Beethoven's so-called "supercilious" adage rings true.

There is a proverb that says "live and let live" I find useful as a philosophy and as practical attitude, but it only works if and when man behaves himself within the boundaries of commonly acceptable morality.

Within the "boundaries" and context of this "spirituality forum" the value of ones spiritual views and perspectives are subject to critical review.

That which is "spiritual" can be only understood to be relative to the "incorporeal" and immaterial. A "spiritual" experience through/by/from an experience of the corporeal is just a shadow or reflection of the true object of the spiritual.

The object of that which is a genuine experience of things spiritual is the creator of all that exists. God is the object, the First Cause of all True, correct, useful and meaningful spiritual knowledge as it relates man's experience with the immortal, immutable and eternal God, and his experiences in this life.

It is what God's Word teaches, and it is mutually exclusive of all other philosophy's and spiritual ideologies man has produced.

Live and let live I say, but within the context of this forum, and given the nature of these debates the truth will out, and you're free to express your thoughts, live your life and experience "spirituality" any which way you please.

@secondson said
There is a proverb that says "live and let live" I find useful as a philosophy and as practical attitude, but it only works if and when man behaves himself within the boundaries of commonly acceptable morality.

Within the "boundaries" and context of this "spirituality forum" the value of ones spiritual views and perspectives are subject to critical review.

That which ...[text shortened]... ree to express your thoughts, live your life and experience "spirituality" any which way you please.

Have you now finally dropped your initial personal condemnation of Beethoven and his music?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I am minded of Ephesians 5:19:

'Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord.'

Yes, and the object of praise and worship as expressed in the lyrics of songs and hymns, the lyrics being the expression of the truths of God's Word, sung from the heart, is the Lord.

As the creator of all that exists God alone defines, causes and is Himself the object of true spirituality, and any experience with it.

Without Jesus Christ spirituality is a dead counterfeit, or at best a corporeal, ecstatic, euphoric, sublime and physiologically transporting experience.

@secondson said
Live and let live I say, but within the context of this forum, and given the nature of these debates the truth will out, and you're free to express your thoughts, live your life and experience "spirituality" any which way you please.

I am free to express my thoughts, live my life and experience spirituality any which way I please? I don't remember there being any question mark over this freedom for me or for anyone. Perhaps you have some declarations about what bears do in the woods, and whether the Pope is a Catholic, as well?

@secondson said
Without Jesus Christ spirituality is a dead counterfeit, or at best a corporeal, ecstatic, euphoric, sublime and physiologically transporting experience.

For many Christians I've known, music has been something where the sensual and spiritual overlap. Some of the most sensual/spiritual music ever composed and performed was inspired by belief in the Christian God.

@secondson said
Yes, and the object of praise and worship as expressed in the lyrics of songs and hymns, the lyrics being the expression of the truths of God's Word, sung from the heart, is the Lord.

As the creator of all that exists God alone defines, causes and is Himself the object of true spirituality, and any experience with it.

Without Jesus Christ spirituality is a dead counte ...[text shortened]... it, or at best a corporeal, ecstatic, euphoric, sublime and physiologically transporting experience.

Biblically speaking, the heart is where man's desires emanate from. Take for example:

'Take delight in the LORD, and he will give you the desires of your heart.' (Psalm 37:4)

So when Ephesians 5:19 tells us to 'sing and make music from your heart to the Lord' it is a request for man to make his own emotional connection to God through music.

@fmf said
I am free to express my thoughts, live my life and experience spirituality any which way I please? I don't remember there being any question mark over this freedom for me or for anyone. Perhaps you have some declarations about what bears do in the woods, and whether the Pope is a Catholic, as well?

Lame sarcasm.

@fmf said
For many Christians I've known, music has been something where the sensual and spiritual overlap. Some of the most sensual/spiritual music ever composed and performed was inspired by belief in the Christian God.

"...sensual and spiritual overlap"?

How would you know that? It's not in the Bible. Can you reference the scripture verses that support that idea?
Thanks for the info though. I'll file it away for possible future relevance.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Biblically speaking, the heart is where man's desires emanate from. Take for example:

'Take delight in the LORD, and he will give you the desires of your heart.' (Psalm 37:4)

So when Ephesians 5:19 tells us to 'sing and make music from your heart to the Lord' it is a request for man to make his own emotional connection to God through music.

Yes, biblically speaking the heart of the matter is the matter of the heart. It's a central tenet of scripture.

Ephesians 5:19 says, "Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;"

"Speaking to yourselves". Paul here is addressing individuals using the pronoun 'yourselves', and at the end of the verse it is clear the directive is meant for each individual singularly, "...making melody in your heart to the Lord.

The verse makes it clear that the practice is personal.

In addition your inference that, "...it is a request for man to make his own emotional connection to God..." is not supported by the thought in the verse itself.

The "connection" to, or with God is spiritual foremost and primary, while the "emotional" is a response, which is of a personal nature.

Sadly, the verse doesn't support the idea of composing music for a symphony orchestra.

@secondson said
"...sensual and spiritual overlap"?

How would you know that?

Talking to people.

@secondson said
"How does the spiritual meaning and purpose you find from God impact how you deal with people who find you to be quite" divisive, especially in that you "soweth discord among brethren" in this forum as you side with unbelievers against Christians posting here?

The so called “believers” in this forum do not display any of the attributes by which I would recognise Christianity, especially yourself Joseph. So your question, or should I say avoidance of my question, is mute.

@fmf said
Have you now finally dropped your initial personal condemnation of Beethoven and his music?

Will you ever stop lying about what others say?