Misc. Hell Responses

Originally posted by CalJust
Can you express this in First Principles, as I took such pains to describe?

I asked you about God's grace and mercy, I asked you about how complete it was! Are
there limits to His grace and mercy? I'd like to get past this before we move on.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Yes, I am blind to your nonexistent bible god. You are just wallowing in dreams of the afterlife which is going to be disappointing if you ever have some kind of afterlife, which is nothing but another fantasy. Racial wishful thinking. Any tool to use to overcome the fear of death. I don't fear death. Don't exactly welcome it either but not worried, I alrea ...[text shortened]... went, but in spite of it all I sit here and grin when I think of the places my getup has been'🙂

Okay

Originally posted by KellyJay
Okay

One thing obvious to me, we have nothing up on the rest of the animals of Earth, NONE of us are going to live one second longer than our bodies. Theists invented the afterlife to make the misery of living a bit more bearable.

Originally posted by sonhouse
One thing obvious to me, we have nothing up on the rest of the animals of Earth, NONE of us are going to live one second longer than our bodies. Theists invented the afterlife to make the misery of living a bit more bearable.

I believe what the scripture teaches about what happens to us after this life, not sure where
you got your information, but it seems you believe it completely.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I asked you about God's grace and mercy, I asked you about how complete it was! Are
there limits to His grace and mercy? I'd like to get past this before we move on.

I was under the impression that I DID answer that in my previous post.

Grace and mercy are both optional attributes. They depend on the character and choices of the dispenser of them, and most likely also on the specific situation.

That is all that we can say, until we examine the character and choices of such a person, which cannot be done in a sentence.

Are we past it now, or do you want to add anything?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm asking you about God's grace and mercy after judgment day, you seem to know a lot
about it before judgment. If you cannot answer it I'll just not worry about your views in this
discussion.

Exactly what about God's grace and merc. Your question is not specific

Originally posted by KellyJay

KJ, I fear we are going around in circles, and I get the feeling that you do not understand what I am trying to discuss, or what I mean by first principles.

Let me enumerate some of those principles and see if we can agree on them and use them as some sort of guideline.

#1. Debt and Liability.
There is such a thing as one party owing another party something, which puts party A into debt to party B. Such debts must be repaid in some way.
#2. Grace and Mercy
This occurs when the debt is cancelled by Party B. The debt is then no longer due. There may or may not be conditions for Party B to impose on Party A before dispensing Grace and Mercy
#3. Should Party A not pay the debt, and should Party B not dispense mercy, then there are further consequences that come into play, see #4.
#4. Laws without consequences are merely advice, however-
#5. The Consequences of not settling debts, or the punishment involved, must suit the level of debt or the crime involved. For example, the cutting off of a hand for petty theft is nowadays almost universally condemned.

These should be enough to start with. Do you disagree with any of these five General Principles?

Originally posted by CalJust
I was under the impression that I DID answer that in my previous post.

Grace and mercy are both optional attributes. They depend on the character and choices of the dispenser of them, and most likely also on the specific situation.

That is all that we can say, until we examine the character and choices of such a person, which cannot be done in a sentence.

Are we past it now, or do you want to add anything?

Optional what? What do they do for how long? The point was describe them not tell me if
they were optional or not. What does it matter if we say everyone gets it or not, if we don't
know what they do and how powerful they are as they do it.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Exactly what about God's grace and merc. Your question is not specific

Describe them, what do they do, how long do they last, how powerful are they?

Originally posted by CalJust
KJ, I fear we are going around in circles, and I get the feeling that you do not understand what I am trying to discuss, or what I mean by first principles.

Let me enumerate some of those principles and see if we can agree on them and use them as some sort of guideline.

#1. Debt and Liability.
There is such a thing as one party owing another party som ...[text shortened]... These should be enough to start with. Do you disagree with any of these five General Principles?

So all debt is cancelled with grace and mercy. Sin is a debt it is owed to God, and with
God's grace and mercy all the debt for sin is removed due to Jesus' death and rising again,
correct? It isn't that God just cancelled the debt it was settled through Jesus, true?

If you agree with this I think I can start addressing your points.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Describe them, what do they do, how long do they last, how powerful are they?

That would be a very long answer. Its like asking me to list the number of planes that did not crash today. Its easier to list the ones that did .. none that I know of.

I will tell you what I understand from the Bible about what Gods grace and mercy is NOT. It is NOT unlimited in the sense that many believe .. it has a limit. Exactly how that limit is applied is not known to anyone. Only on judgment day will that be known. The Bible warns of dire consequences for all those that engage in an immoral fleshly lifestyle especially Christians .. the consequences are severe.

Originally posted by Rajk999
That would be a very long answer. Its like asking me to list the number of planes that did not crash today. Its easier to list the ones that did .. none that I know of.

I will tell you what I understand from the Bible about what Gods grace and mercy is NOT. It is NOT unlimited in the sense that many believe .. it has a limit. Exactly how that limit is app ...[text shortened]... hat engage in an immoral fleshly lifestyle especially Christians .. the consequences are severe.

Okay well thanks

Originally posted by KellyJay
So all debt is cancelled with grace and mercy. Sin is a debt it is owed to God, and with
God's grace and mercy all the debt for sin is removed due to Jesus' death and rising again,
correct? It isn't that God just cancelled the debt it was settled through Jesus, true?

If you agree with this I think I can start addressing your points.

Sorry, KJ, you are way ahead of me.

We haven't mentioned God yet, nor sin, nor Jesus or anything vaguely religious.

I am still trying to establish commonly understood principles, before we venture onto theological ground.

Again, do you agree or disagree with my General Principles? Or are they too difficult to understand?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Okay well thanks

Glad I could be of help. Hope you learned something

Originally posted by CalJust
Sorry, KJ, you are way ahead of me.

We haven't mentioned God yet, nor sin, nor Jesus or anything vaguely religious.

I am still trying to establish commonly understood principles, before we venture onto theological ground.

Again, do you agree or disagree with my General Principles? Or are they too difficult to understand?

No we have not mentioned God yet....what I wanted to know is if grace and mercy would be
so complete every sin was accounted for, forever. We can talk about God now, unless you
believe that God's grace is not so complete it does not take care of all sins and something
else needs done after judgment day.