28 Mar 06
1 edit
I don't see any defense to the charge that Muslims kill people who convert to other religions. The news about that guy in Afghanastan was he wasn't just let go or some such, he was pronounced 'mentally unfit for trial' so they had a way to save face. But his life is still in danger, the clergy is calling for his death. So in my opinion, you cannot be a real muslim if you cannot recant and join another freely.
That makes it coerced not a choice.
Here is a link to an interesting piece on Apostasy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostate#In_Islam
There is more than just the Islam issue there.
29 Mar 06
Originally posted by sonhouseI don't see a charge that muslims kill people who convert to other religions.
I don't see any defense to the charge that Muslims kill people who convert to other religions.
As you said, "There is more than just the Islam issue there."
This is the same country that Osama Bin Laden called home, the same country that has not been stable... ever(?), and the same place people like you look to find the best examples of Islam.
Clearly, one of us is doing something wrong.
29 Mar 06
Originally posted by TetsujinI am doing NOTHING wrong. I am questioning the selfmade right of these religions to kill those who convert to another religion, christianity in the case of the afghani who seems to be on his way to Italy, escaping by the skin of his teeth. You seem to be in denial about this issue. How can anyone call himself or herself muslim when they know for a fact people are being killed by leaving islam? You think god would want the death of someone who recants faith? Since you think god is the ruler of the universe and you accept Jesus as a prophet, why would god care whether a person who grew up muslim and then converts to christianity? ITS THE SAME GOD, according to Islam.
I don't see a charge that muslims kill people who convert to other religions.
As you said, [b]"There is more than just the Islam issue there."
This is the same country that Osama Bin Laden called home, the same country that has not been stable... ever(?), and the same place people like you look to find the best examples of Islam.
Clearly, one of us is doing something wrong.[/b]
29 Mar 06
1 edit
Originally posted by sonhouseTell me where it says in the Qu'ran that you should readily kill those who convert back and forth between religions.
I am doing NOTHING wrong. I am questioning the selfmade right of these religions to kill those who convert to another religion, christianity in the case of the afghani who seems to be on his way to Italy, escaping by the skin of his teeth. You seem to be in denial about this issue. How can anyone call himself or herself muslim when they know for a fact peop ...[text shortened]... rson who grew up muslim and then converts to christianity? ITS THE SAME GOD, according to Islam.
Tell me why you think these afghani clerics are a suitable representation of the Islamic faith.
Tell me why it is hard for you to validate your claims, when all I ask is that you tell me if you think the religion is corrupt or the people in question.
Tell me why you expect me to refute your claims when they are poorly defined.
Am I supposed to teach you everything you should know, or is the onus on you to do some research yourself?
Tell me why you haven't answerd half a dozen other questions I asked you before?
Tell me why you think I am not a muslim if I [clearly] don't have the same philosophies as everyone and everything you think constitutes being a muslim.
If you aren't going to be rational, then is there a point in discussing this at all?
29 Mar 06
1 edit
Originally posted by TetsujinWell tell me of a muslim nation that does NOT call for the death of a convert? I assume in the US or Europe they better well NOT, but what about Malaysian, Iran, Afganistan, Pakistan, Syria, Saudi, are those countries not practicing the true islam faith then?
Tell me where it says in the Qu'ran that you should readily kill those who convert back and forth between religions.
Tell me why you think these afghani clerics are a suitable representation of the Islamic faith.
Tell me why it is hard for you to validate your claims, when all I ask is that you tell me if you think the religion is corrupt or the peopl lim.
If you aren't going to be rational, then is there a point in discussing this at all?
Is there any country in which Islam has taken over the government where they are still tolerant of other religions?
30 Mar 06
2 edits
Originally posted by sonhouseoops!!!
Well tell me of a muslim nation that does NOT call for the death of a convert? I assume in the US or Europe they better well NOT, but what about Malaysian, Iran, Afganistan, Pakistan, Syria, Saudi, are those countries not practicing the true islam faith then?
Is there any country in which Islam has taken over the government where they are still tolerant of other religions?
The Koran
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Disbelievers
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
[109.1] Say: O unbelievers!
[109.2] I do not serve that which you serve,
[109.3] Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
[109.4] Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
[109.5] Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
[109.6] You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.
31 Mar 06
Originally posted by sonhouseIndonesia
Well tell me of a muslim nation that does NOT call for the death of a convert? I assume in the US or Europe they better well NOT, but what about Malaysian, Iran, Afganistan, Pakistan, Syria, Saudi, are those countries not practicing the true islam faith then?
Is there any country in which Islam has taken over the government where they are still tolerant of other religions?
31 Mar 06
Originally posted by frogstompClose, but it usually goes:
oops!!!
The Koran
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Disbelievers
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
[109.1] Say: O unbelievers!
[109.2] I do not serve that which you serve,
[109.3] Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
[109.4] Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
[109. ...[text shortened]... g to serve Him Whom I serve:
[109.6] You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.
109: The Disbelievers, Atheists
1. Say : O ye that reject Faith!
2. I worship not that which ye worship,
3. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
4. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6. To you be your Way, and to me mine.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Of course, some people have difficulty accepting such a philosophy.
31 Mar 06
Originally posted by TetsujinIf only that were universal, you don't believe the way I do, don't expect me to invite you to dinner but go in peace. I wait for that day.
Close, but it usually goes:
109: The Disbelievers, Atheists
1. Say : O ye that reject Faith!
2. I worship not that which ye worship,
3. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
4. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6. To you be your Way, and to me mine.
~~~~~~ ...[text shortened]... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Of course, some people have difficulty accepting such a philosophy.
31 Mar 06
Originally posted by TetsujinShow me an ideal society ...
It's true that Indonesia comes the closest, but it's still far from ideal.
As for sonhouse, what do [b]you think it means?
I'm far more interested in what you think, since you're right about everything.[/b]
I don't think such a thing exists.
31 Mar 06
1 edit
Originally posted by amannionyet.
Show me an ideal society ...
I don't think such a thing exists.
I wonder if it would pizz off the religious faction if they could suddenly be taken to a far distant future to find a good peaceful godless society where a blind man can meet his destiny, where all people are considered equal, women revered not dominated, etc., would that shock the hell of them?
31 Mar 06
Originally posted by sonhouseWhy do you ignore my questions?
yet.
I wonder if it would pizz off the religious faction if they could suddenly be taken to a far distant future to find a good peaceful godless society where a blind man can meet his destiny, where all people are considered equal, women revered not dominated, etc., would that shock the hell of them?
Do you do it on purpose? Is this the method to your madness?