- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Does the New Testament discourage speaking for God or encourage it here?
"Do not quench the Spirit.
Do not despise prophecies.
But prove all things. Hold fast to what is good,
Abstain from every form of evil." (1 Thess. 5:19-22)
Is to abstain from evil ... every form of evil important ?
Yes.
Is proving all things and holding fast to the good things important?
Yes.
Is prophesying important?
Yes.
Should prophesying be regarded as precious or as something of dirtiness?
It appears to me that the Holy Spirit and SPEAKING forth prophesy in the Spirit is highly regarded by the New Testament.
Again -
" Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophesies."
Don't despise speaking forth for God. Perfect it.
Live in the Holy Spirit and perfect SPEAKING in prophesy.
In fact SPEAKING this way will help you to
"abstain from every form of evil" .
- Joined
- 31 Jan 18
- Moves
- 3456
23 May 18
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeWow. A post from you I agree with.
'Worship is born in our hearts, not on our lips.'
Anon
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
So the healthy Christian life is that through the week believers experience Jesus Christ in many circumstances and in many ways in their daily lives. Then they come together and prophesy to one another for mutual encouragement.
The speaking for God should be orderly and without confusion. But it should be spiritual, edifying, and causing both speakers and hearers to touch God the Holy Spirit deep within.
"For you can all prophesy one by one that all may learn and all may be encouraged.
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets; For God is not a God of confusion but of peace." (1 Cor. 14:31-33)
Degraded Christianity has departed far from this. The "one person speaking" preacher each and every time in the church "service" is mostly the practice of degraded Christianity.
The Quakers tried to get away from this.
And some "charismatic" Christian meetings tried also.
But the tradition of the one speaker - week after week after week has crippled and damaged the church no end.
I am not saying there should never be a time when one person does the majority of the speaking. I am saying that the week after week after week expectation that a single So-and-So will have a good "sermon" to eloquently speak as a perpetual practice is not good.
"But you can all prophesy, one by one that all may learn and all may be encouraged." (v.31)
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
"And God has placed some in the church; first apostles, second prophets, third teachers; then works of power, then gifts of healing, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues." (1 Cor. 12:28)
Its amazing how much importance Paul place on spiritual SPEAKING and the godly use of the MOUTH in the Christian life.
These gifts for building up the church all involve speaking.
"And God has placed some in the church:Apostleship surely involves worshipful power in prayers and preaching, encouragement and teaching.
first apostles
...second prophets
Yes, prophecies will be done away eventually. But not yet.
And godly worshipful use of the mouth is needed in this age by those who would prophesy.
... third teachers
Teaching obviously requires the mouth. Normal Christian teachers LIVE what they TEACH. Yet they teach something also a little HIGHER so as to be stretching forth for more.
Yet the worshipful use of the MOUTH is required for spiritual teaching.
... then works of power
This also must involve SPEAKING in faith - the use of the mouth consecrated to God.
... then gifts of healing ...
At least this involves powerful prayers of faith which require the mouth often. And the commanding of healing with a MOUTH consecrated to God is necessary too.
Rajk999;s war against the godly use of the MOUTH is shown as quite against the NT.
... helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues"
All these have to require the worshipful use of a MOUTH consecrated to God and His purpose.
Sorry Rajk999.
Originally posted by @sonshipSorry sonship. Mouth worship is the start of the life in Christ. Mouth praise is fine, mouth faith is fine. What you fail miserably at is preaching that one needs to progress further into a life of righteousness. This is what determines whether or not the professed follower of Christ will enter the Kingdom of God. Some will enter and some will be cast out. Born again Christian saints with the Holy SPirit who do not live righteously WILL BE CAST OUT OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
Sorry Rajk999.
You can blah blah all the nonsense you like, but you cannot get away from this one undeniable fact .. that those who enter the Kingdom of God are those who live righteously and do good works ie follow the commandments of Christ, and this is clearly preached by Jesus and all the Apostles
Here are some references:
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. (Matthew 25:34-36 KJV)
And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Ephesians 5:2-5 KJV)
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
(Revelation 22:14-15 KJV)
Foolish Christians will follow you. The wise ones will follow the teachings of Christ and Paul.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
30 May 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @rajk999You are missing the point that on Christ's heart is the building up of the church. And the building up of the church as we see in First Corinthians very much involves the godly use of the speaking mouth.
Sorry sonship. Mouth worship is the start of the life in Christ. Mouth praise is fine, mouth faith is fine. What you fail miserably at is preaching that one needs to progress further into a life of righteousness. This is what determines whether or not the professed follower of Christ will enter the Kingdom of God. Some will enter and some will be cast ou ...[text shortened]... ish Christians will follow you. The wise ones will follow the teachings of Christ and Paul.[/b]
First - the building up of the church is not man's idea but Christ's -
"I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." (Matt. 16:18b)
Once again - the BUILDING of HIS church is HIS idea, not ours. Got that ?
Secondly - the SAINTS as constituents of the church are to BUILD UP. His building of the church flows through the SAINTS in THIER building up of one another in the normal practical church life..
"But he who prophesies speaks BUILDING UP and encouragement and consolation to men." (1 Cor. 14:3)
If you are interested in God's kingdom then you should be interested in the believers BUILDING up the practical church by speaking forth and speaking for God in prophesying.
Christ will build His church and will USE His members to BUiLD through their spiritual MOUTH's function.
We Christians are to earnestly desire and "excel" to participate in this building.
"So also you, since you are zealous of spirits, seek that you may excel for the building up of the church." (1 Cor. 14:12)
Christians should be charitable AND not neglect to allowing Christ to BUILD His church via the proper worshipful use of the MOUTH.
"Earnestly desire" to PROPHESY - for the building up of the church.
"Excel" in the function of PROPHESYING - for the building up of the church.
Is it getting through ??
30 May 18
Originally posted by @sonshipDoes this "church" of talk-the-talk and think-the-think of yours organize vaccinations for any children, dig any water and sanitation infrastructure, raise money for micro-loans for women victims of domestic abuse, distribute reading materials to marginalized communities etc. etc. and so demonstrate Christian principles and elbow grease and the inspiration of Jesus and the Sermon On The Mount, for example, through concrete action... after all the "godly use of the speaking mouth" that you have been going on about here - almost to the total exception of anything else - for years and years?
You are missing the point that on Christ's heart is the building up of the church. And the building up of the church as we see in First Corinthians very much involves the godly use of the speaking mouth.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
30 May 18
1 edit
Should the Christian earnestly desire to speak for God ?
Hint:
"Pursue love, and desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but ESPECIALLY that you may prophesy." (1 Cor. 14:1)
Should the Christian seek to EXCEL in the prophesying for the building up of the church ?
Hint:
"So also you, since you are zealous of spirits, seek that you may EXCEL for the building up of the church." ( v.12)
The building up of the church is a man-made idea or originates from out of Jesus Christ?
Hint:
"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." (Matt. 16:18)
But HOW will Christ BUiLD His church? Is there ANYTHING for the members of the church to do ?
Hint:
" But in the church I would rather speak five words with my mind, that I might instruct others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue." (1 Cor. 14:19)
Another HINT:
"He who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but he who prophesies BUILDS UP THE CHURCH." (1 Cor. 14:4)
Today God is recovering proper prophesying for the building up of the church, um ... God's idea.
30 May 18
Originally posted by @sonshipAre you brain dead? The Christians who get eternal life in the Kingdom of God, are the ones who live righteously and do good works. Those Christians who do not are cast out. What false nonsense are you preaching to people?
You are missing the point that on Christ's heart is the building up of the church. And the building up of the church as we see in [b]First Corinthians very much involves the godly use of the speaking mouth.
First - the building up of the church is not man's idea but Christ's -
[quote] "I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not ...[text shortened]... in the function of PROPHESYING - for the building up of the church.
Is it getting through ??
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
30 May 18
Originally posted by @fmfOver there,
Does this "church" of talk-the-talk and think-the-think of yours organize vaccinations for any children, dig any water and sanitation infrastructure, raise money for micro-loans for women victims of domestic abuse, distribute reading materials to marginalized communities etc. etc. and so demonstrate Christian principles and elbow grease and the inspiration of J ...[text shortened]... been going on about here - almost to the total exception of anything else - for years and years?
Back then.
On that other discussion,
In that other post.
On that other page, way back then you already answered. Remember?
No need for me to read it now.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
30 May 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @rajk999First Corinthians 12,13,14 all about the building up of the church. That is the church which Christ said He would build - His will, His purpose, His desire to bring in His kingdom.
Are you brain dead? The Christians who get eternal life in the Kingdom of God, are the ones who live righteously and do good works. Those Christians who do not are cast out. What false nonsense are you preaching to people?
God says our consecrated MOUTH is very much involved.
YOU are fighting against that.
30 May 18
Originally posted by @sonshipDoes your "church" only do the "godly use of the speaking mouth" stuff and not any of the Sermon On The Mount stuff? If it does any of the latter, why do you never, ever, ever talk about it?
Over there,
Back then.
On that other discussion,
In that other post.
On that other page, way back then you already answered. Remember?
No need for me to read it now.
Originally posted by @fmfChrist's church are the people who follow his commandments.
Does this "church" of talk-the-talk and think-the-think of yours organize vaccinations for any children, dig any water and sanitation infrastructure, raise money for micro-loans for women victims of domestic abuse, distribute reading materials to marginalized communities etc. etc. and so demonstrate Christian principles and elbow grease and the inspiration of J ...[text shortened]... been going on about here - almost to the total exception of anything else - for years and years?
These are brothers in Christ. The sheep of Christ.
Sonship preaches that is not necessary follow Christ commandments
Sonship and all like him are not part of Christ's church