New religions name? :)

Originally posted by googlefudge
Whether or not your god is real IS the entire ballgame.
And until you can show ANY evidence of any calibre worth considering that your god IS real, then the default
position is that things you can't detect (and yes this includes the wind rustling the leaves thing) don't exist.

Not exactly.

There is NO evidence, no proof, of God. There cannot be.

Proof negates Faith. Faith is all that is important.

The entire point is NOT "whether or not your god is real".

The entire point is that you have Faith that God is real.

Christians have Faith. They pass the test.

Atheists do not. They fail the test.

Case closed.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Not exactly.

There is NO evidence, no proof, of God. There cannot be.

Proof negates Faith. Faith is all that is important.

The entire point is NOT "whether or not your god is real".

The entire point is that you have Faith that God is real.

Christians have Faith. They pass the test.

Atheists do not. They fail the test.

Case closed.

I have faith in God (NOT necessarily totally from the bible), where do you put me?

(But, as I pointed out my faith is based on SOME reason,there is no way in heckden that you can expect your arguement to float.)

How conveniant that there is no proof and it is all based soley on fatih.
Ask those guys that all were going to meet their space bros, which turned out to be a genocide/suicide. Not sure which now, but one thing is certain - they didn't make it to their space bros location, on the comet Hale Bopp .
What struck me about these people is that they had clothes and shoes packed ready to go.
C'mon people , if they were really going to space then their physical bodies would not survive. But still, they drove themselves, beyond all reason, and because of their blind faith that they would be just fine.

edit: now before I get called christian basher, I would like to point out that this was an extreme example.
All I'm saying is SOME christians may not be on as firm a ground as they think.
It is my belief that blind faith always has the potential to become absolutely disasterous, 4 someone can take advantage of them due to their upholding if their reason.
Another example I remember was when an Asian (Japanese?) christian group said the world was going to end in the mid nineties sometime. The cameras were there at the stroke of midnight and nothing happened, of course. Not even a little tremor or something.
Not an hour or two later the leader(s) were saying that the date was wrong and they had miscalculated and that this time they were sure to be right.

I dont know about you, but I would rather spend my last hours on Earth with my kids or a sip on a nice galss of chardonnay. How do these people get sucked and then go back for more??? It defies all common sense- and we call ourselves the most intelligent race.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Not exactly.

There is NO evidence, no proof, of God. There cannot be.

Proof negates Faith. Faith is all that is important.

The entire point is NOT "whether or not your god is real".

The entire point is that you have Faith that God is real.

Christians have Faith. They pass the test.

Atheists do not. They fail the test.

Case closed.

The entire point is that you have Faith that God is real.

Christians have Faith. They pass the test.

Questions:

Does everyone who sincerely believes themselves to be a Christian, pass this test?

Do non-Christians having Faith (your capital F) that God is real, pass this test?

How is your point useful?

What does it mean for God to be real?

We keep getting this bickering about JW's and Mormons not to mention Muslims and Jews and Hindus. Please clarify in no uncertain terms -- unless you are uncertain.

Originally posted by JS357

Questions:

Does everyone who sincerely believes themselves to be a Christian, pass this test?[/b]

Suzianne is probably off brewing some of her famous black/orange iced tea, so although I welcome her to answer these pertinent questions, I thought I would like to take a stab at them.

The answer to this question is, yes.

JS357 said
Do non-Christians having Faith (your capital F) that God is real, pass this test?

The way the question is constructed, no.

JS357 said
How is your point useful?

It differentiates what it means to be Christian and that faith is something completely different from belief and knowledge. Jesus said even the demons believe, drawing a sharp contrast between saving Faith and mere belief or knowlege.

JS357 said
What does it mean for God to be real?

I guess the answer would probably depend on what each person declares must happen in order for them to know God exists. God appeared to Moses in the form of a talking, burning bush. That was good enough for Moses. Would it be good enough for you to know, or would you require more?

Originally posted by sumydid
Suzianne is probably off brewing some of her famous black/orange iced tea, so although I welcome her to answer these pertinent questions, I thought I would like to take a stab at them.

The answer to this question is, yes.

JS357 said
[b]Do non-Christians having Faith (your capital F) that God is real, pass this test?

The way ...[text shortened]... was good enough for Moses. Would it be good enough for you to know, or would you require more?[/b]

A talking burning bush may do for me, but it would depend on what it was saying.
(funny though, you have to admit)


Alternatively you could try asking some actual religious/spiritual people, if you can find any. (Not that I doubt that you have the inner wisdom to find your own truth. If you do, I am sure it wont conflict with "God" as this is what "He" would want of us.)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
A talking burning bush may do for me, but it would depend on what it was saying.
(funny though, you have to admit)

What if it said...


GUARDS!! SEIZE HIM!!! 😀

Originally posted by sumydid
What if it said...


[b]GUARDS!! SEIZE HIM!!![/b]

Haven't we been here before? I didn't notice any smileys this time, are you at all serious here?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Haven't we been here before? I didn't notice any smileys this time, are you at all serious here?

*smiley added upon request of said infidel.*

Originally posted by sumydid
Suzianne is probably off brewing some of her famous black/orange iced tea, so although I welcome her to answer these pertinent questions, I thought I would like to take a stab at them.

The answer to this question is, yes.

JS357 said
[b]Do non-Christians having Faith (your capital F) that God is real, pass this test?

The way ...[text shortened]... was good enough for Moses. Would it be good enough for you to know, or would you require more?[/b]

JS357 said
What does it mean for God to be real?


I guess the answer would probably depend on what each person declares must happen in order for them to know God exists. God appeared to Moses in the form of a talking, burning bush. That was good enough for Moses. Would it be good enough for you to know, or would you require more?

Thank you for your thoughtful replies. My intention in asking what it means for God to be real isn't to know what must happen for a person to know God exists. In fact I think that capital-F faith implies not knowing, although it can involve a feeling of confidence or certainty in one's faith.

I think God is in a completely separate category from anything else people think of as real. We speak of rocks, trees, cats, the universe, concepts, principles, goals, numbers, etc. etc. as if they are real. I think God, if real, has to be placed in a category separate than any of these. But that's as far as I get. Maybe it's not important.

Originally posted by JS357

JS357 said
What does it mean for God to be real?


I guess the answer would probably depend on what each person declares must happen in order for them to know God exists. God appeared to Moses in the form of a talking, burning bush. That was good enough for Moses. Would it be good enough for you to know, or would you require more?

...[text shortened]... a category separate than any of these. But that's as far as I get. Maybe it's not important.

How you categorize god is irrelevant to whether or not god exists.

God either exists, or god doesn't exist, there are no other options.

If god exists, then religion based on his existence have a point.

If god doesn't exist then they don't.

If you claim to believe in god on blind faith, because there is no evidence for god's existence,
Then the next question is why that god, you not some other god?



If you have no evidence for the existence of your(any) god, then all claims of god
(and anything else supernatural) are equally valid.

There is nothing to distinguish between them in terms of legitimacy because you have thrown out
all logic, reason and evidence.

You may claim evidence for the existence of a person claiming to be the son of god (JC) but that
evidence is far inferior to the evidence for the existence of the prophet Mohamed and the religion
of Islam.

You have no reason for believing in your god over any other than the fact that you were receptive to
the idea at a time you met people of your current faith (quite possibly the faith of your family and/or
community)

There is no justification you can give for believing in one god idea over another.

Anyone claiming to believe in one god is an atheist for ALL the other ones.

The question is how you can justify not believing in all the other gods while still believing in your one
chosen one?


People say that you must believe in god based on faith alone with no evidence whatsoever.
This requires the total abandonment of reason.
This is completely idiotic.

No god worthy of being worshipped would ask people to believe in them on such a flimsy and stupid premise.
And they certainly wouldn't punish people for not being so irrational and stupid as to believe in them on such
flimsy grounds.

Also frankly no god worthy of being worshipped would demand, ask or expect, to be worshipped.

The god of the bible is an evil megalomaniacal ego-maniac, who fortunately doesn't exist.

Originally posted by googlefudge
How you categorize god is irrelevant to whether or not god exists.

God either exists, or god doesn't exist, there are no other options.

If god exists, then religion based on his existence have a point.

If god doesn't exist then they don't.

If you claim to believe in god on blind faith, because there is no evidence for god's existence,
Then t ...[text shortened]...
The god of the bible is an evil megalomaniacal ego-maniac, who fortunately doesn't exist.

I say God exists and the heavens show some of his handiwork.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I say God exists and the heavens show some of his handiwork.

Based on what?

There are secular explanations for all of that, so none of it is proof of god.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Is this your church's position?

If so, I would maintain that one of your own members here has demonstrated his own disavowal of this description. Therefore he doesn't follow his own church's description of his own faith. Ironic, isn't it?

If not, why not? You just said this is in the bible, yes?

Please explain this acusation for me....

Originally posted by googlefudge
Based on what?

There are secular explanations for all of that, so none of it is proof of god.

Based on my mind and intelligence. That is enough for me. 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
Based on my mind and intelligence. That is enough for me. 😏

Yes but your a throwback to the 16th century so your mind and intelligence don't really count for much.