Christians, I know this is going to rub you the wrong way, but as a Christian, I cannot blame non believers for thinking the way they do, especially the way some believers and their organizations behave. i.e.
Take a long, hard look at the grandiose buildings decorated in gold and precious artifacts in the Vatican and other "fine" Christian structures. Do they look like a modest stable that a poor Jew was born in to 2000 years ago?
How many Christian organizations do you know, who, despite their wealth, political power, and dominant position; never fail to present themselves as the "persecuted minority"
How many Christian believers in their attempt to convert non believers, become too aggressive, pushy, and and act in a "so superior" manner?
How many Christian organizations do you know, who's primary purpose is the accumulation of wealth and/or political power?
How many Christian believers preach the gospel and God's Law, then unfailingly act in a dishonest, greedy, and disrespectful manner to others and to their communities?
Christians - faith is not something that can be forced or bought. If you want non believers to accept Jesus as their savior, you're going to have to set a better example of what a Christian is.
@mchill saidRubbing people the wrong way by giving an air of superiority at the same time, (and seeking power over our fellow man), is all human nature. We all have done it to varying degrees.
Christians, I know this is going to rub you the wrong way, but as a Christian, I cannot blame non believers for thinking the way they do, especially the way some believers and their organizations behave. i.e.
Take a long, hard look at the grandiose buildings decorated in gold and precious artifacts in the Vatican and other "fine" Christian structures. Do they look like a mo ...[text shortened]... o accept Jesus as their savior, you're going to have to set a better example of what a Christian is.
The miracle are those who are able to overcome it through the power of God himself and learn to serve others.
In fact, most who give their time and money to those in need are those of faith.
As for those coming here to troll alley trying to learn theology..............well............if you want to start out light you may want to read wiki first or maybe...........God forbid..............read the religious texts for which you are interested in.
@mchill saidI think you may be overestimating the impact which you not blaming non-believers for being non-believers will have on the believers in this forum.
Christians, I know this is going to rub you the wrong way, but as a Christian, I cannot blame non believers for thinking the way they do
Many of the “believers” here don’t even bat an eyelid at their own gross intellectual dishonesty let alone concern themselves with the passing acknowledgment by a moderate chap such as yourself that he may say something which will “rub them up the wrong way”.
If you really want to rub @sonship up the wrong way you could try asking him if you MUST accept the trinity explanation of the godhead as a prerequisite of access to salvation. Good luck...
Meanwhile I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your well observed post.
10 Nov 19
@whodey said"Everyone's done it" is insufficient reason to continue the practice. This is one reason Millenials are disgusted by Boomers.
Rubbing people the wrong way by giving an air of superiority at the same time, (and seeking power over our fellow man), is all human nature. We all have done it to varying degrees.
The miracle are those who are able to overcome it through the power of God himself and learn to serve others.
In fact, most who give their time and money to those in need are those of faith ...[text shortened]... or maybe...........God forbid..............read the religious texts for which you are interested in.
Jesus did not come to say "Keep on doing what you've been doing."
10 Nov 19
@mchill saidI agree. Christianity should be doing a better job of calling out hypocrites. The problem is that many of the churches themselves promote the same hypocrisy.
Christians, I know this is going to rub you the wrong way, but as a Christian, I cannot blame non believers for thinking the way they do, especially the way some believers and their organizations behave. i.e.
Take a long, hard look at the grandiose buildings decorated in gold and precious artifacts in the Vatican and other "fine" Christian structures. Do they look like a mo ...[text shortened]... o accept Jesus as their savior, you're going to have to set a better example of what a Christian is.
10 Nov 19
@whodey said
Rubbing people the wrong way by giving an air of superiority at the same time, (and seeking power over our fellow man), is all human nature. We all have done it to varying degrees.
The miracle are those who are able to overcome it through the power of God himself and learn to serve others.
In fact, most who give their time and money to those in need are those of faith ...[text shortened]... or maybe...........God forbid..............read the religious texts for which you are interested in.
In fact, most who give their time and money to those in need are those of faith.Do you have any actual evidence to back this assertion?
10 Nov 19
@deepthought saidhttps://www.philanthropy.com/article/Religious-Americans-Give-More/153973In fact, most who give their time and money to those in need are those of faith.Do you have any actual evidence to back this assertion?
The more important religion is to a person, the more likely that person is to give to a charity of any kind, according to new research released today.
Among Americans who claim a religious affiliation, the study said, 65 percent give to charity. Among those who do not identify a religious creed, 56 percent make charitable gifts.
About 75 percent of people who frequently attend religious services gave to congregations, and 60 percent gave to religious charities or nonreligious ones. By comparison, fewer than half of people who said they didn’t attend faith services regularly supported any charity, even a even secular one.
“If your goal is to connect with donors, it’s clear that one of the things that matters to them is their religious orientation,” says Shawn Landres, Jumpstart’s chief executive and a co-author of the report.
The study of more than 4,800 American households, which covers members of five major religious denominations and people who are unaffiliated with any faith, was derived from two national surveys on giving compiled this year and analyzed by Jumpstart, a nonprofit research group, and researchers at the Indiana University Lilly Family School of Philanthropy. The report used data from two surveys: the National Study of American Religious Giving and the National Study of American Jewish Giving.
• Giving rates among black Protestants, evangelical Protestants, Jews, mainline Protestants—which include Episcopalians, members of the United Methodist Church, Presbyterians, and some Lutherans—and Roman Catholics were about the same. However, while roughly half of all members of the other faith groups contribute to religious congregations, only 37 percent of Jews did the same.
• American households donated a median $375 to congregations, $150 to religiously identified nonprofits, and $250 to secular charities in 2012.
• Black Protestants, followed by Roman Catholics and Jews, were the most likely to give out of the desire to help the needy.
• The three most popular charitable causes for all households regardless of religious affiliation were, in descending order: basic social services, “combined purpose” organizations (like United Way), and health care.
The study also looked at how much money went not only to congregations but also to charities with religious identities but secular missions. It shows that religious giving is sweeping: Forty-one percent of all charitable gifts from households last year went to congregations, while 32 percent went to other nonprofits with a religious identity and 27 percent went to secular charities. The results of that piece of the study have an 8 percent margin of error.
10 Nov 19
I would add that I think that those who may be areligious are still heavily influenced by that of Christianity when focusing on helping those in need. In fact, Nietzsche once complained that Karl Marx still tried to keep the morality of Christianity while dismissing the source of that morality when it came to wanting to help the poor. As a result, he attempted to develop his own moral code. In fact , he scoffed at the notion that the poor should be a focus of helping at all.
10 Nov 19
@mchill saidOut of curiosity, what thinking are you projecting onto non-believers? I've got significantly different ideas from @googlefudge (who seems to have vanished) and definitely have different attitudes to Christianity specifically and religion as a whole. He was more in the mold of Dawkins. However, I think we both count as non-believers, I'm just rather more open to the idea. Also, what do you mean by non-believer, not believing in Christ or not being a theist?
Christians, I know this is going to rub you the wrong way, but as a Christian, I cannot blame non believers for thinking the way they do, especially the way some believers and their organizations behave. i.e.
Take a long, hard look at the grandiose buildings decorated in gold and precious artifacts in the Vatican and other "fine" Christian structures. Do they look like a mo ...[text shortened]... o accept Jesus as their savior, you're going to have to set a better example of what a Christian is.
10 Nov 19
@mchill saidThe thing is the ones doing it right, are not going to be standing out like that. It is never about headlines, name recognition, or monuments to themselves, or their organization; it will be seeking God and disciplining those that come to the Lord.
Christians, I know this is going to rub you the wrong way, but as a Christian, I cannot blame non believers for thinking the way they do, especially the way some believers and their organizations behave. i.e.
Take a long, hard look at the grandiose buildings decorated in gold and precious artifacts in the Vatican and other "fine" Christian structures. Do they look like a mo ...[text shortened]... o accept Jesus as their savior, you're going to have to set a better example of what a Christian is.
10 Nov 19
@deepthought saidI am part of an organization that has taken on the mission of making the lives of the homeless better in and around downtown in the city where I live. The people in this organization, who give their own time, money and sweat, by my estimation run slightly more 'religious' than atheistic, but not by much, and that 'religious' sector is comprised of Christian, Muslim and Jewish. I do not think we have any other faiths represented yet. I'd say it's running about 55% to 45% right now, and this 'religious' edge has been declining over the past decade. It's getting close to a 50-50 split. Now, the disclaimer is that this is just the organization I'm involved in, I'm not sure about all organizations dealing with all types of need.In fact, most who give their time and money to those in need are those of faith.Do you have any actual evidence to back this assertion?
So maybe he's hedging his bets by saying 'most'. I'm fairly certain that there are organizations where it's not even 'most'.
10 Nov 19
@whodey saidSo did a conservative hero named Ayn Rand, by the way.
I would add that I think that those who may be areligious are still heavily influenced by that of Christianity when focusing on helping those in need. In fact, Nietzsche once complained that Karl Marx still tried to keep the morality of Christianity while dismissing the source of that morality when it came to wanting to help the poor. As a result, he attempted to develop hi ...[text shortened]... n moral code. In fact , he scoffed at the notion that the poor should be a focus of helping at all.
10 Nov 19
@fmf saidI'm fairly certain it includes this type of 'charitable giving'. This is hidden in whodey's stats under 'giving to congregations'. Tithing generally circumvents the 'collection plate', though it still is considered 'giving to congregations.'
Does this include or exclude about a billion or so Catholics tossing some spare money into the collection box once a week?
