Of all the world's evils, lying is the least of them.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Not criticizing members of your group whether family, race, tribe or religion especially in front of members of another group is fairly typical human behavior. It often has negative side effects.
I have seen it manifested in politics where a politician who claims to be Christian gets less criticism by Christians because they don't like to criticize thei ...[text shortened]... not because they think the actions are right but because they think it is patriotic to do so.

I agree in full with you.

I know how it works -it really works as you posed it- and it is always awfull and ill-considered. If ahosyney was an American and he was acting as you described, I would oppose him just the same using exactly the same standards and means. If ahosyney was Jewish, Christian, Buddhist or atheist or whatever and he was maintening these opinions of his, I would oppose him just the same using exactly the same standards and means.

So no, ahosyney is not worse than an American citizen who tries to justify the outrageous actions of G.W. Bush's administration. And he is not worse than a radical Jewish, Christian, Buddhist or atheist or whatever who wants too to forward his personal religionist doctrine as the "word of god" and set it above the secular law.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Or because they're afraid. The risks are high.

Are we obliged to speak up against what is self-evidently wrong?

Is cowardice a form of lying?

My obnoxious brother,

there is not such a thing as cowardice in the spirit and the heart of the citizen who is aware that all we need is Tolerence. For, this citizen understands that he too fights an ever raging war regarding the Human Rights, which together with the holistic respect of Life they stand higher than every religious doctrine. Who would you save from the fire, Bosse de Nage, the last original ancient hand written Christian/ Jewish/ Buddhist/ Muslim etc "holy scripture" or a disabled kid? Would you save from the fire a disabled kid or the most precious piece of Fine Arts around the dial? What is really precious, the life of a disabled kid or all together the so called "holy scriptures" that the Human has invented and that many consider that they are the "word of god"? -of Their personal "god", that is.

So there is no place for quoting "cowrdice" in this war. There is solely strategy and tactics in order to promote your beliefs. Therefore, at each condition the individual who fights s/he is oblidged to find the right strategy and the right tactical approach, otherwise s/he is doomed. There is fear big time, I agree, and I know that the danger at those theocratic countries is as real and toxic as the air we breath in the big cities of this planet. Under these conditions the citizen has to be extremely careful, and in many occasions s/he has to remain silent, otherwise s/he risks her/ his life. This behaviour is not "cowardice" I reckon, because we know the taste of the religionists that they rule these theocratic countries. Therefore, when them there citizens are forced to stand still, I cannot claim that they are cowards. It seems to me that "cowardism" as you pose it and under these cisrcumstances is not lying, but a tactic that most of the citizens are forced to apply due to the fact that they evaluated that their societies are not willing to change, or because they simply have not the power to fight openly against the main social plexus of their countries. Anyway, in my opinion nobody has the right to push the Human to die for a so called "holy" idea -so I am the last person that will speak about "cowardice".

For sure the West does need the dissapointed, open minded Muslim citizens, for the problem is not at all Islam itself. Anybody has to be free to have his own opinions, religion included -sure thing
The problem is religionism and fanaticism, and this is an attitude that I tolerate not regardless its origins.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Or because they're afraid. The risks are high.

Are we obliged to speak up against what is self-evidently wrong?

Is cowardice a form of lying?

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke

Cant say its an obligation but strong willed and knowlegeable people, with a clear sense of right and wrong should act when evil starts to appear. Ahosyney is definitely one of those people but he is presently misguided.