Spirituality
27 Jan 19
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29799
31 Jan 19
@kellyjay saidA divine gift being given to someone deserving it seems fine with me.
A reward is something earned, a gift is something given that didn’t have to be. A winner of a race can earn a reward by winning a race, than that would be earned.
One who gives mercy can be asked but not compelled! Our salvation isn’t due to us, we were in no position to compel God for it, it was because He first loved us can we rest in.
A divine gift being given to someone undeserving seems more like wishful thinking on the part of man.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYou think we deserve God’s favor?
A divine gift being given to someone deserving it seems fine with me.
A divine gift being given to someone undeserving seems more like wishful thinking on the part of man.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI guess the reality of God, and your imagination to how great the real God is are at odds with one another.
God doesn't exist.
Hypothetically, it makes more sense for a good and loving deity to favour/reward people who are also loving and good.
01 Feb 19
@kellyjay saidGhost of a Duke: Hypothetically, it makes more sense for a good and loving deity to favour/reward people who are also loving and good.
I guess the reality of God, and your imagination to how great the real God is are at odds with one another.
I guess the reality of God, and your imagination to how great the real God is are at odds with one another.
Putting aside what you personally believe is "the reality of God", does Ghost of a Duke's hypothetical make any moral sense to you?
01 Feb 19
@fmf saidFrom a purely humanistic way sure, but bottom line that makes it one of complete failure, scripturally speaking. A good God one who is just, righteous, purely good without any taint of evil within, nothing corrupt in it, could accept anything not good that was evil and wicked. Allowing evil to live and thrive would mean God isn't good and that which is perfect would never be anything but perfect.
Ghost of a Duke: Hypothetically, it makes more sense for a good and loving deity to favour/reward people who are also loving and good.
I guess the reality of God, and your imagination to how great the real God is are at odds with one another.
Putting aside what you personally believe is "the reality of God", does Ghost of a Duke's hypothetical make any moral sense to you?
You and Duke are still running under the delusion that people are or can be good enough to be accepted by such a God. Scripturally speaking there are no scriptural backing for such a belief. There are no purely good and loving people, each one is tainted by sin to the point that we cannot even see it many times. Jesus said that even calling someone a fool was enough to put one in danger of Hell. Not forgiving anyone who has done us wrong puts us in a place of being unforgiven, not loving God and our fellow man are breaking the top two commandments. Jesus even said that if we even look at someone with lust in our hearts we have do the deed in our hearts. Our good has never been good enough, and when that is the case God by His nature could never bring us in on our merits. We deserve Hell for our actions and sins, and Jesus came to save us from our sins.
When God saw we were unable to do anything about our condition He because He first loved us sent Jesus for us to save us. So we can accept the gift returning to God or not, He will not force us into choosing against our will. We can walk away or endure to the end where our relationship with the Lord grows more personal with each step, with each breath, until we see Him face to face.
@kellyjay saidI think, by the word "delusion", what you actually mean is that Ghost of a Duke and I are not Christians and we don't subscribe to your notion of a creator god and to your fears and aspirations with regard to the instructions and threats you say your creator god figure has made available to human beings based on your interpretation of ancient Hebrew mythology and the cult of personality subsequently built around "Jesus". Please note: I have never once referred to your beliefs as "delusions".
You and Duke are still running under the delusion that people are or can be good enough to be accepted by such a God.
@kellyjay saidGhost of a Duke: Hypothetically, it makes more sense for a good and loving deity to favour/reward people who are also loving and good.
From a purely humanistic way sure, but bottom line that makes it one of complete failure, scripturally speaking.
KellyJay: I guess the reality of God, and your imagination to how great the real God is are at odds with one another.
FMF: Putting aside what you personally believe is "the reality of God", does Ghost of a Duke's hypothetical make any moral sense to you?
KellyJay: From a purely humanistic way sure, but bottom line that makes it one of complete failure, scripturally speaking.
Thanks, KellyJay but I am specifically not asking you about "scripturally speaking" this or "scripturally speaking" that. I asked you "Does Ghost of a Duke's hypothetical make any moral sense to you?" And you have said that it does make sense to you to a degree. Tell us more about how and why it makes sense to you. To answer this, you can set aside "scripturally speaking" for a moment, and talk about the way in which Ghost of a Duke's hypothetical makes moral sense to you.
01 Feb 19
@fmf saidJesus is the truth, the way, the life what keeps you from that isn't.
Ghost of a Duke: Hypothetically, it makes more sense for a good and loving deity to favour/reward people who are also loving and good.
KellyJay: I guess the reality of God, and your imagination to how great the real God is are at odds with one another.
FMF: [i]Putting aside what you personally believe is "the reality of God", does Ghost of a Duke's hypotheti ...[text shortened]... r a moment, and talk about the way in which Ghost of a Duke's hypothetical makes moral sense to you.
01 Feb 19
@fmf saidDo you set aside that which makes you, you? The world isn't limited to my thoughts on any topic, my opinions on what is going on only reside in me. I can have thoughts about any topic and none of those would alter anything outside of my beliefs or opinions. As we have discussed before truth isn't just an opinion it is only when an opinion lines up with reality, and making our vision of it meaningless if it doesn't actually fit reality. God being reality if missed it is because our opinions miss the reality of God, and if we buy into things that keep us from God those are not truth but misconceptions, falsehoods, and in some cases lies from the father of lies.
Ghost of a Duke: Hypothetically, it makes more sense for a good and loving deity to favour/reward people who are also loving and good.
KellyJay: I guess the reality of God, and your imagination to how great the real God is are at odds with one another.
FMF: [i]Putting aside what you personally believe is "the reality of God", does Ghost of a Duke's hypotheti ...[text shortened]... r a moment, and talk about the way in which Ghost of a Duke's hypothetical makes moral sense to you.
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
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- 121478
Alleged cosmic voice “Here’s a gift of love and eternal life...”
Persons: (Silence)
Religious person: “God is offering you a divine gift”
Persons: “what god, I don’t believe in supernatural beings”
Religious person: “my god, the loving Jesus, is offering you a divine love gift of eternal life”
Persons: “what do I have to do to get this gift?”
Religious person: “there is nothing you can do of your own merit, you just have to accept the divine love gift through faith”
Persons: “I can’t accept the divine love gift because I don’t believe that a supernatural being exists”
Religious person: “that’s too bad, because Jesus, the giver of the divine love gift, will torture you alive for eternity if you don’t accept it”
Persons: “your god sounds like a monstrous despotic psychopath”
Religious person: “there is no need to be disrespectful...I will pray that my god will ‘get you’ “
Persons: “goodbye”.
@kellyjay saidYou and Duke are still running under the delusion that people are or can be good enough to be accepted by such a God. Scripturally speaking there are no scriptural backing for such a belief.
From a purely humanistic way sure, but bottom line that makes it one of complete failure, scripturally speaking. A good God one who is just, righteous, purely good without any taint of evil within, nothing corrupt in it, could accept anything not good that was evil and wicked. Allowing evil to live and thrive would mean God isn't good and that which is perfect would never be ...[text shortened]... p with the Lord grows more personal with each step, with each breath, until we see Him face to face.
Actually there is. You disingenuously pick and choose passages to ignore and/or distort in order to continue to believe the dogma that you've been taught.
Following is but one example:
Ezekiel 18
21“But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22“All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live. 23“Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord GOD, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?
The above is consistent with the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth. You believe in a different gospel.
01 Feb 19
@thinkofone saidYou believe every word Jesus said?
You and Duke are still running under the delusion that people are or can be good enough to be accepted by such a God. Scripturally speaking there are no scriptural backing for such a belief.
Actually there is. You disingenuously pick and choose passages to ignore and/or distort in order to continue to believe the dogma that you've been taught.
Following is bu ...[text shortened]... tent with the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth. You believe in a different gospel.