26 Nov 06
Originally posted by whodeyI got your point. Actually I have a previous experiance about that. But I will need sometime to response to you, so wait for me.
As far as the need for food and the need for love, I would say that the Bible is correct when it states that ALL good things come from God. Therefore, food is a loving gesture to sustain our being just as he sent down manna to feed the children of Israel in the wilderness. As far as why God created us, it is apparent to me that he did so to relate to us in ...[text shortened]... ee will? Can you force someone to love you? This is why we have free will as did Adam and Eve.
26 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneyIs GOD existance Impossible?
What you say is the one that doesn't make sense for a very many reason:
1- Quran is not a scientific book to give you every scientific fact you know today. Asking is Avogadro Number is there is non sense. Some scientific notes are given in some parts in the Quran asking you to think about in order to belive. If you didn't think about it, or didn't belive ...[text shortened]... Simple , isn't it? If you managed to find it and prove it there will be no Mulims!!!![/b]
Of course not. Neither is the existence of fairies at the bottom of the garden, the cosmic teapot, the flying spaghetti monster or pink, invisible flying unicorns.
The age of the earth bit mainly comes from your theorising that, to god, a thousand years are as a day. It wasn't thousands of years between the formation of the earth and the beginning of human existence, rather, it was thousands of millions of years.
26 Nov 06
Originally posted by scottishinnzQuran doesn't say human existance start directly after creating earth. It say earth and skys are created in 6 days, but it doesn't say when humans existance started on earth.
[b] Is GOD existance Impossible?
Of course not. Neither is the existence of fairies at the bottom of the garden, the cosmic teapot, the flying spaghetti monster or pink, invisible flying unicorns.
The age of the earth bit mainly comes from your theorising that, to god, a thousand years are as a day. It wasn't thousands of years between ...[text shortened]... the earth and the beginning of human existence, rather, it was thousands of millions of years.[/b]
So 6 thouthends or 6 days is the period of creating the heavens and earth. It has nothing to do with human existance.
Can you say I'm worng? I think no, because you know nothing about Quran? It is all pre-assumptions.
You assume that GOD doesn't exist, then Quran must be wrong. It is all pre-assumptions.
26 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneyParsimony, my good man. You have yet to prove that God does exist. Or perhaps I should also believe in fairies until someone disproves them to me?
Quran doesn't say human existance start directly after creating earth. It say earth and skys are created in 6 days, but it doesn't say when humans existance started on earth.
So 6 thouthends or 6 days is the period of creating the heavens and earth. It has nothing to do with human existance.
Can you say I'm worng? I think no, because you know nothing ...[text shortened]... .
You assume that GOD doesn't exist, then Quran must be wrong. It is all pre-assumptions.
26 Nov 06
Originally posted by scottishinnzI spent a lot of time talking about this point before:
Parsimony, my good man. You have yet to prove that God does exist. Or perhaps I should also believe in fairies until someone disproves them to me?
Take a look here:
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=56482
And here I talked about Quran.
If you really care to know read them and tell me what you think.
Note: This thread was not discussing the GOD existance. It was discussing the GOD view through the OT. And I asked why don't you try to see GOD through Quran. So I assumed you are discussing this point.
Also take a look at this thread:
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=56871
It might be important to our discussion here.
Regards
26 Nov 06
Originally posted by whodeyI read your two post about Love.
As far as the need for food and the need for love, I would say that the Bible is correct when it states that ALL good things come from God. Therefore, food is a loving gesture to sustain our being just as he sent down manna to feed the children of Israel in the wilderness. As far as why God created us, it is apparent to me that he did so to relate to us in ...[text shortened]... ee will? Can you force someone to love you? This is why we have free will as did Adam and Eve.
I can tell that in Islam there is no much different. We are asked to love Allah, because he is our creator. We are asked to worship him because we owe him every thing.
But here is the problem:
Your faith equate you to GOD. Makes the love relationship between you and GOD mutual. Which imply that GOD needs your love. But GOD is not in need to anything.
You assume that GOD sacrifice his son to forgive your sin. Why do you think GOD needs to do that?
Because he love you!!!!
We are talking about GOD here. He is your creator. Your so week creature among billions of creatures, what the weight of you so that GOD need to do anything for you.
So the the Christian faith , (And in some how Jewish too) give human more than his weight. So you don't submit yourself to GOD, because you think you are so important to GOD.
But it is not the truth, because GOD is greater than that. It is mercy what GOD do for you, not love. Mercy is given from you creator to you..
Mercy, that forgive your sin, not sacrifice.
But as GOD give Mercy he also has punishment. Do you know what Quran say:
005.018
YUSUFALI: (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of Allah, and his beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)"
PICKTHAL: The Jews and Christians say: We are sons of Allah and His loved ones. Say: Why then doth He chastise you for your sins? Nay, ye are but mortals of His creating. He forgiveth whom He will, and chastiseth whom He will. Allah's is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, and unto Him is the journeying.
SHAKIR: And the Jews and the Christians say: We are the sons of Allah and His beloved ones. Say: Why does He then chastise you for your faults? Nay, you are mortals from among those whom He has created, He forgives whom He pleases and chastises whom He pleases; and Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, and to Him is the eventual coming.
Note: Try to read the quran. Read the translation and I can help you if you want.
27 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneySorry to return to this point but is a 'God' day 1000 years or 50000 years?
It doesn't say 24hrs = 1000 years
It say that the GOD day is not like our days.
Our day is depending on the rotation of the earth in front of the earth, but before creating the earth and son there is no 24 hrs.
So GOD day is not like ours.
How long is it? There are several location in the Quran where GOD talk about his day. It is mentioned 3 tim ...[text shortened]... ne time it was said it is 50000 years when Quran was talking about a specific day , surrah 70:4
27 Nov 06
Originally posted by snowinscotlandHere is the other verse:
and the other one, why does it say 50000 years?
070.004
YUSUFALI: The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years:
PICKTHAL: (Whereby) the angels and the Spirit ascend unto Him in a Day whereof the span is fifty thousand years.
SHAKIR: To Him ascend the angels and the Spirit in a day the measure of which is fifty thousand years.
So it is talking about a specific day. It just a measure of how long it required for the angles and spririts to ascend to GOD.
27 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneyso in the Quran, the word day (referring to God), can mean either 1000 years or 50000 years. Perhaps the translation loses something, like it should say 'time period' rather than 'day' ?
Here is the other verse:
[i]070.004
YUSUFALI: The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years:
PICKTHAL: (Whereby) the angels and the Spirit ascend unto Him in a Day whereof the span is fifty thousand years.
SHAKIR: To Him ascend the angels and the Spirit in a day the measure of which is fifty thous ...[text shortened]... fic day. It just a measure of how long it required for the angles and spririts to ascend to GOD.
27 Nov 06
Originally posted by snowinscotlandMay be. But this verse say:
so in the Quran, the word day (referring to God), can mean either 1000 years or 50000 years. Perhaps the translation loses something, like it should say 'time period' rather than 'day' ?
022.047
YUSUFALI: Yet they ask thee to hasten on the Punishment! But Allah will not fail in His Promise. Verily a Day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.
PICKTHAL: And they will bid thee hasten on the Doom, and Allah faileth not His promise, but lo! a Day with Allah is as a thousand years of what ye reckon.
SHAKIR: And they ask you to hasten on the punishment, and Allah will by no means fail in His promise, and surely a day with your Lord is as a thousand years of what you number.
Directly states that Allah's day = 1000 years. But the other one not.
But in all cases when Allah say in Quran the word "day", he is talking about a period of time. Not a day like ours. Sometimes he gave the duration of this period, like 1000 or 50000, and sometimes not.
27 Nov 06
YUSUFALI: The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years:
YUSUFALI: Yet they ask thee to hasten on the Punishment! But Allah will not fail in His Promise. Verily a Day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.
The top verse says a day is 50000 years.
The bottom verse says a day is like a thoursand years.
How can they both be correct?
27 Nov 06
1 edit
Originally posted by snowinscotlandI think I explained that before.
YUSUFALI: The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years:
YUSUFALI: Yet they ask thee to hasten on the Punishment! But Allah will not fail in His Promise. Verily a Day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.
The top verse says a day is 50000 years.
The bottom verse says a day is like a thoursand years.
How can they both be correct?
Day is a specific period of time. On earth we measure it by how much it talkes the earth to complete one round around its axes.
But for the moon it is different, and so for any other planet.
So the day has no specific period. It depends on your reference. What day is it. If you say the day on earth, it will be 24 hours.
So the reference in both verses is diffrenent. In the first one it is the period it taks angles and spirit to ascend. And in the second one it referes to GODs day. As the reference is different , the period of the day could be different. Is it clear?
27 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneyThat's what I said before:- perhaps the translation lost something.
I think I explained that before.
Day is a specific period of time. On earth we measure it by how much it talkes the earth to complete one round around its axes.
But for the moon it is different, and so for any other planet.
So the day has no specific period. It depends on your reference. What day is it. If you say the day on earth, it will be 24 ...[text shortened]... GODs day. As the reference is different , the period of the day could be different. Is it clear?
Rather than talk about a 'day', it should say 'time period'. That way, when two or three different values are applied to a single word, that has very broad and specific common useage, there is no misunderstanding.
If I said to you 'I'll borrow the money for a day' and then 'I'll repay you in a day'; which of these words 'day' means 24 hours and which means '50000 years'?