18 Aug 09
You know how that goes 😉 Then it's like when people are jumping all over the J-Dub's teachings. Catholicism has many faces. I admire the J-Dubs for their apparent love of the scriptures. There are Catholics that are just as versed as any J-Dub is all I'm saying. I would really not assume that the J-Dubs have the keys to scriptures and the only true understanding of such. How about the rabbis? They know old testament/Torah as well as anyone.
Manny
18 Aug 09
Originally posted by menace71But Manny. Do you realy feel that with all the confusion about even the simplist scripture ,for example where Jesus said to the man beside him when he was dying that you will be with me in paradise. Did Jesus mean he would be there with him or that Jesus spirit or thoughts would be there with him? Just as a President would say: I'm with you in thought to his countrymen.
You know how that goes 😉 Then it's like when people are jumping all over the J-Dub's teachings. Catholicism has many faces. I admire the J-Dubs for their apparent love of the scriptures. There are Catholics that are just as versed as any J-Dub is all I'm saying. I would really not assume that the J-Dubs have the keys to scriptures and the only true underst ...[text shortened]... of such. How about the rabbis? They know old testament/Torah as well as anyone.
Manny
It can only mean one thing, one way. Right?
Doesn't Genesis say that God visited Adam in the garden of Eden daily? Do we take that to mean God was actually there with him or just in spirit? The Bible says no man can see God and live? Why couldn't Jesus be with us in that same fashion? Is he to weak to accomplish that from heaven?
18 Aug 09
Originally posted by galveston75I believe that God did walk with Adam in the garden of Eden. There was no issue with man being able to see God at that point. It's when we fell that suddenly we were aware of the Holiness & judgment of God. Another reason for Christ was so that we could see God. Jesus says no man comes to the father but through me. I and the father are one. I also believe Christ said what he meant to the thief next to him that day. Also if Christ was just some spirit being than what purpose was it for him to hang on a cross (stake as JW's believe) ? To suffer?
But Manny. Do you realy feel that with all the confusion about even the simplist scripture ,for example where Jesus said to the man beside him when he was dying that you will be with me in paradise. Did Jesus mean he would be there with him or that Jesus spirit or thoughts would be there with him? Just as a President would say: I'm with you in thought to ...[text shortened]... couldn't Jesus be with us in that same fashion? Is he to weak to accomplish that from heaven?
Manny
18 Aug 09
Originally posted by galveston75If God is are creator then we will see him at some point. Your right in His full Glory un-bridled sinful man would die! However God has given us glimpses of Himself even if veiled. Moses was in God's Glory on Mt. Sinai! God was there! He veiled Himself but He was there. Also Why did John fall as a dead man when he heard and saw Christ in his vision?
No man can see God and live. But you say Adam saw him? Hum??? Ex 33:20
Do you veil or reveal?
Manny
18 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71Yes in God's spiritual presence but God did not apear to him. It would have killed him as was seen in his hair turning white by just being in that vicinity of his spiritual presence. Physically as in flesh and blood God did not materialize.
Also Moses had to veil himself because he was in God's Glory. He however was in the presence of God.
Manny
18 Aug 09
Originally posted by galveston75bad example, it only appears in one of the 3 synoptic gospels (Luke) it does not appear in mark which is known as the "Q" or original gospel. It is a non verifiable event.
But Manny. Do you realy feel that with all the confusion about even the simplist scripture ,for example where Jesus said to the man beside him when he was dying that you will be with me in paradise. Did Jesus mean he would be there with him or that Jesus spirit or thoughts would be there with him? Just as a President would say: I'm with you in thought to ...[text shortened]... couldn't Jesus be with us in that same fashion? Is he to weak to accomplish that from heaven?
plus it has the added feature of disproving your belief's. When we die, we do not rest in the ground until the end times. if this story is true and did happen, then when we die we go straight to paradise (heaven).
18 Aug 09
Originally posted by duecerParadise is not in heaven.....Every scripture in the Bible is refering to paradise being on earth as in the original paradise where Adam was at. Show me scripture that says it will be in heaven????
bad example, it only appears in one of the 3 synoptic gospels (Luke) it does not appear in mark which is known as the "Q" or original gospel. It is a non verifiable event.
plus it has the added feature of disproving your belief's. When we die, we do not rest in the ground until the end times. if this story is true and did happen, then when we die we go straight to paradise (heaven).
18 Aug 09
Originally posted by galveston75why then would jesus say "Today you will be with me in Paradise"? It was quite certain they were about to die. This is where your theology begins to unravel; you can't cherry pick the text to support your pressuposed theology. God's word is pretty clear...we go to heaven. Not just 144,000, but all believers. The whole 144,000 may in fact be the absolute worst bit of theology in Christendom today. talk a about a stretch. that part is not even close to being defensible.
Paradise is not in heaven.....Every scripture in the Bible is refering to paradise being on earth as in the original paradise where Adam was at. Show me scripture that says it will be in heaven????
18 Aug 09
Originally posted by galveston752 Corinthians 5
Not a good answer Manny. Show me proof that it is in heaven otherwise it's just your opinion.
New Bodies
1 For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies.[a] 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it’s not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.
6 So we are always confident, even though we know that as long as we live in these bodies we are not at home with the Lord. 7 For we live by believing and not by seeing. 8 Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord. 9 So whether we are here in this body or away from this body, our goal is to please him
Philipians 1: 20 For I fully expect and hope that I will never be ashamed, but that I will continue to be bold for Christ, as I have been in the past. And I trust that my life will bring honor to Christ, whether I live or die. 21 For to me, living means living for Christ, and dying is even better. 22 But if I live, I can do more fruitful work for Christ. So I really don’t know which is better. 23 I’m torn between two desires: I long to go and be with Christ, which would be far better for me. 24 But for your sakes, it is better that I continue to live.
25 Knowing this, I am convinced that I will remain alive so I can continue to help all of you grow and experience the joy of your faith. 26 And when I come to you again, you will have even more reason to take pride in Christ Jesus because of what he is doing through me.
when we die we go to be with Christ in heaven. Paradise is a synonym for heaven.