22 Jan 07
Originally posted by mazziewagFirstly, it was a simple question. Since we haven't met, a simple 'No, I was just asking him for his reasons' would have sufficed.
Firstly i didnt deny imperfection, smart ars3.
Secondly, what makes you say that God created those things?
Secondly, at the risk of being a smart ars3, I'm pretty sure that god is responsible for the creation department. Those examples which are human in origin still fall under god's responsibility as an omniscient, omnibenevolent, omnipotent being.
22 Jan 07
Originally posted by StarrmanSorry starrman, long day and all that.
Firstly, it was a simple question. Since we haven't met, a simple 'No, I was just asking him for his reasons' would have sufficed.
Secondly, at the risk of being a smart ars3, I'm pretty sure that god is responsible for the creation department. Those examples which are human in origin still fall under god's responsibility as an omniscient, omnibenevolent, omnipotent being.
Dont you think though that free will couldnt exist if God denies the possiblity of all these bad things?
Ill add im not religious and that if i think a God exists he is not the classical theistically defined God, i am just interested in this discussion.
22 Jan 07
Originally posted by mazziewagI don't think free will really does exist, either in the theistic tradition or otherwise, but that's a different discussion. Here I'd just point out that the prescience that god has means that he is aware of our actions. Since he is also all-good and all powerful, to deny us the removal of those things is tantamount to criminal negligence at the very least and perhaps downright cruelty. That suggests to me that if god exists, either he's not perfect, or he's perfect evil.
Sorry starrman, long day and all that.
Dont you think though that free will couldnt exist if God denies the possiblity of all these bad things?
Ill add im not religious and that if i think a God exists he is not the classical theistically defined God, i am just interested in this discussion.
23 Jan 07
Originally posted by mazziewagYou are on the right track in that if God's will be perfect then choosing anything outside that will would be less than perfect. So if you choose anything contrary to God's will you are choosing imperfection. Does this then mean that God created that imperfection that you chose? No, rather, you are simply not choosing the road God has created us to travel. If we did not have this choice, however, then we are merely robotic in nature and life would be 100% pointless.
Sorry starrman, long day and all that.
Dont you think though that free will couldnt exist if God denies the possiblity of all these bad things?
Ill add im not religious and that if i think a God exists he is not the classical theistically defined God, i am just interested in this discussion.
23 Jan 07
Originally posted by metbieropPerfection is a relative word. What is perfect to you may be imperfect to another. If everything created by some mythical being is created the way he wanted it then it is perfect to him, whatever your personal opinion might be.
Is God perfect?
If so, why did he create imperfection?
The real question is: If you want something to have two logically incompatible attributes then is it still possible to make it? The usual Christian argument for why the universe is imperfect is that it would be logically impossible to have both free will and no wrong choices both of which are apparently desirable and therefore a universe with both attributes is impossible and therefore it is impossible to make a perfect universe. Somehow God always seems to get of the hook somewhere in mid discussion and is excused from making the imperfection.
23 Jan 07
Originally posted by metbieropCan you give me an example of something perfect?
Is God perfect?
If so, why did he create imperfection?
To me, this adjective is meaningful only if applied to a noun: "a perfect woman", we might say, and go on to discuss what constitutes her perfection.
We could say that God is a perfect God, but I don't think that would get us very far.