15 Jun 18
Originally posted by @fmfThat's not the right question.
The UK eh? Mmmm. Sounds like it might be really bad. Do you think - therefore - that the citizens of Indonesia should NOT have a right to free speech and free press?
15 Jun 18
Originally posted by @philokaliaYou to want to talk about "the West" and "South Korea" but when I want to talk about "Indonesia" you reject it because it's not "abstract things". Have I interpreted your wriggling correctly?
Logic : where art thou.
15 Jun 18
Originally posted by @philokaliaOK try this: the citizens of Indonesia should have a right to free speech and free press or the citizens of Indonesia should NOT have a right to free speech and free press: which?
That's not the right question.
Originally posted by @philokaliaWhy don't you talk to someone who advocates this thing you call "Muh Rights"? There might be some on the Debates Forum, whatever they are exactly. How did you define them? Stupid people who speak like someone who never reads books, was that the gist of it?
If it weren't for economic development, we would look like the Philippines.
And we would be able to enjoy Muh Democracy, then, right? Lol.
The Filipinos elected strongman Duterte because life without security and without justice for drug dealers isn't worth living even if you have Muh Rights.
15 Jun 18
Originally posted by @fmfNo,
You to want to talk about "the West" and "South Korea" but when I want to talk about "Indonesia" you reject it because it's not "abstract things". Have I interpreted your wriggling correctly?
I am saying : look at the collective picture,and then you'll also understand why Indonesia is what it is now, and it's not because of Muh Rights.
You: Look only at Indonesia. Muh Rights!
15 Jun 18
Originally posted by @philokaliaWhat does this kind of sneery thing actually mean in reality? What does "Muh Indonesia" mean?
You literally sound like
"so what if you're right. Muh Indonesia."
15 Jun 18
Originally posted by @philokaliaI haven't claimed that the only factor in the change Indonesia has seen is freedom and rights. And your repetition of the word "Muh" doesn't work with me.
look at the collective picture,and then you'll also understand why Indonesia is what it is now, and it's not because of Muh Rights.
You: Look only at Indonesia. Muh Rights!
15 Jun 18
Originally posted by @fmfLook at my thread title.
OK try this: the citizens of Indonesia should have a right to free speech and free press or the citizens of Indonesia should NOT have a right to free speech and free press: which?
The general idea would be...
Virtue, then happiness and meaningful livelihood thst results in justice and good living, which is superior to freedom and rights while simultaneously being a source for the same fruit as freedom and rights.
Lack of virtue : all the evils. You can even have Muh Rights on a piece of paper but they're meaningless.
Thus, your question is not the right one.
15 Jun 18
I see what the problem is, basically :
Yiu refuse to have a deep, comprehensive view of the problem and only want to play with things on the surface.
And if we ask you to go deeper, you refuse.
And then you complain that I don't play your exact game on the surface of the issue and complain that I want to go deeper.
Originally posted by @philokaliaI disagree. You talk like someone who has exposed himself to copious amounts of confirmation bias stuff and is completely cut off from people, from communities, from civil society, from how freedoms and rights work in the field in favour of people who are trying to build "a good society" and for whom those freedoms and rights can be a matter of life and death. You do not come across as "deep" in the slightest.
You refuse to have a deep, comprehensive view of the problem and only want to play with things on the surface.
15 Jun 18
Originally posted by @philokaliaI don't perceive you as going "deeper".
And then you complain that I don't play your exact game on the surface of the issue and complain that I want to go deeper.
15 Jun 18
Originally posted by @philokaliaFreedom of the press in Indonesia is "Muh Rights"?
Lack of virtue : all the evils. You can even have Muh Rights on a piece of paper but they're meaningless.