Preaching / Believing

@kellyjay said
Those who deny Him will be denied by Him too, no matter what other things
they think they have going for them.

Do you think people who don't believe in God should or should not heed Jesus' words [at least as they are reported] with regard to good works and the like?

@kellyjay said
Those who deny Him will be denied by Him too, no matter what other things
they think they have going for them.

What exactly did you have in mind when you wrote this? What exactly does "deny[ing]" Him entail?

What exactly do you think Jesus had in mind when He said the following?
Matthew 10
 32“Therefore everyone who homologeo Me before men, I will also homologeo him before My Father who is in heaven. 33“But whoever arneomai Me before men, I will also arneomai him before My Father who is in heaven.

@thinkofone said
What exactly did you have in mind when you wrote this? What exactly does "deny[ing]" Him entail?

What exactly do you think Jesus had in mind when He said the following?
Matthew 10
 32“Therefore everyone who homologeo Me before men, I will also homologeohim before My Father who is in heaven. 33“But whoever arneomai Me before men, I will also arneomai him before My Father who is in heaven.

When you use the word deny what does that mean to you? You deny the Lord
here by refusing to acknowledge you know Him. If you die in that state, it will
not go well for you.

Matthew 10:33
but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

A good example was Peter who had to repent of this, and shortly after it occurred
when Angels were speaking they did not include Peter with the rest of the
disciples when they said, "...his disciples and Peter...".

Matthew 26:34
Jesus said to him, “Truly, I tell you, this very night, before the rooster crows, you will deny me three times.”

Mark 16
6 And he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has risen; he is not here. See the place where they laid him. 7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going before you to Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.”

@kellyjay said
When you use the word deny what does that mean to you? You deny the Lord
here by refusing to acknowledge you know Him. If you die in that state, it will
not go well for you.

Matthew 10:33
but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

A good example was Peter who had to repent of this, and shortly after it occurred
when Angel ...[text shortened]... ples and Peter that he is going before you to Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.”

What leads you to believe that "refusing to acknowledge to know" is the correct meaning of the word "arneomai"?

What of the word "homologeo"? What's the relationship between 10:32 and 10:33?

Placing Matthew 10:32-33 in context of the surrounding text, what exactly leads you to believe that what you surmise is what Jesus had in mind?

@thinkofone said
What leads you to believe that "refusing to acknowledge to know" is the correct meaning of the word "arneomai"?

What of the word "homologeo"? What's the relationship between 10:32 and 10:33?

Placing Matthew 10:32-33 in context of the surrounding text, what exactly leads you to believe that what you surmise is what Jesus had in mind?

Jesus said he was sent by God, do you believe him?

@divegeester said
Jesus said he was sent by God, do you believe him?

broken record much?

@chaney3 said
Should someone preach about Jesus, and the requirement to follow Him, along with doing good works.....if that person does not believe in Jesus, or God?

I don't care....its all a pile of horse manure

karoly,

You can't take orders from anyone. But you can give out orders to everyone else?

get a grip dude

wake up knucklehead!!

Concerning believe in Christ you wrote:

Jesus did NOT use them to mean to believe in the "redemptive work on the cross for salvation" or what have you. Although Jesus never says it, many Christians think that that's how Jesus used it. Such is the power of self-delusion.

You're a deeply deceived man. Your deception is gaining a stronger hold on you as time progresses. Your heart is being more and more hardened as the heart of Pharoah was.

But my concern is hereafter about those whom you may deceived in your own self destruction.

To believe into Christ is to receive Him.
You're doing your utmost to not receive Him.

You say He did not teach to receive Him as the Redeemer.
But He did. The whole New Testament does.

"And He took the cup and gave thanks, and He gave it to them, saying, Drink of it, all of you.

For this is My blood of the covenant, which is being poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. (Matt. 26:28)

No amount of tricky maneuvering you imagine can twist this to not be a teaching about Christ as the Redeemer. And no amount of pointing to OTHER things He said NEGATE this teaching on redemption.

You're trying to bribe you conscience. "I reject the Son of God as my Redeemer. But I will instead do this OTHER good stuff and be accepted by God."

This is the error of Cain all over again. You will try to bring to God the offering that YOU deem God wants. You will refuse to bring the offering that God reveals that you must bring.

You will never have peace in your conscience before God until you receive His cleansing blood of redemption from Christ the Redeemer.

You reason - "But I will do other good stuff that Jesus said to do. Forgiveness doesn't matter."

The new covenant, the covenant is in His blood.
Before you were born, God dismissed whatever you think you can bring to God apart from Christ and His redemption as nothing He can use.

ThinkOfOne,

And He said to them, Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise up from the dead on the third day,

And that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

You are witnesses of these things." (Luke 24: 46-48)

All taught during His ministry.

@sonship said

"And He took the cup and gave thanks, and He gave it to them, saying, Drink of it, all of you.

For this is My blood of the covenant, which is being poured out for many for forgiveness of sins. (Matt. 26:28)

No amount of tricky maneuvering you imagine can twist this to not be a teaching about Christ as the Redeemer. And no amount of pointing to ...[text shortened]... whatever you think you can bring to God apart from Christ and His redemption as nothing He can use.

To understand what Jesus is saying there, one needs to understand it in context of other things He said. 

1) The word given as "forgiveness" literally means "FREEdom". 

2) In John 6 Jesus also speaks of "eating", "bread", "body/flesh", "drinking" and "blood". wherein Jesus uses the metaphor of "eating flesh", "drinking blood" to refer to " the words that I have spoken to you". In short, one "eats" and "drinks" His words so that they will abide in Him. 

3) In John 15 Jesus explains that "abiding" in Him entails "keep[ing] His commandments" (words). 

4) In John 8 Jesus explain that those who "abide in [His] words" will be made "FREE" from committing sin. 

So when Jesus tells them to eat His body (flesh) and drink His blood, He is really speaking of them eating and drinking His words just as He does in John 6. 

So what Jesus means in Matthew 26:28 is "for [these are My words] of the covenant, which is poured out for many for [FREEdom from] sins" which parallels what He said in John 8 about those who abide in His word being FREEd from committing sin. 

This makes so much more sense than Him making some really awkward reference to His future death. Especially in light of Luke 22:19 where He says "do this in remembrance of Me." He's asking them to do it in remembrance of His words - NOT in "remembrance" of His death which hasn't happened yet. 

Also consider the definition of "covenant":  
The Idea of Covenant. The term "covenant" is of Latin origin (con venire), meaning a coming together. It presupposes two or more parties who come together to make a contract, agreeing on promises, stipulations, privileges, and responsibilities. 
https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/covenant/ 

As such, it makes perfect sense that the New Covenant was conveyed with words. The gospel preach by Jesus during His ministry comprises the "promises, stipulations, privileges, and responsibilities" set down by God for His people.  

In Luke 4 at the beginning of the ministry of Jesus, Jesus declares that one of the purposes for which He was anointed was to "proclaim release to the captives". Once again this is about FREEdom - not forgiveness. 

The bottom line is that those who abide in His word are made FREE from the slavery of committing sin. The gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry is consistent throughout about this. Everything points to FREEdom - not forgiveness. FREEdom from committing sin.

@thinkofone said
To understand what Jesus is saying there, one needs to understand it in context of other things He said. 

1) The word given as "forgiveness" literally means "FREEdom". 

2) In John 6 Jesus also speaks of "eating", "bread", "body/flesh", "drinking" and "blood". wherein Jesus uses the metaphor of "eating flesh", "drinking blood" to refer to " the words that I have spoke ...[text shortened]... throughout about this. Everything points to FREEdom - not forgiveness. FREEdom from committing sin.

You know when you have crossed a line is when you have to start changing the
text into something else to make it mean what you want.

1) The word given as "forgiveness" literally means "FREEdom".

Appealing to some Thesaurus or synonyms won't erase Redemption. Even if you insist we substituted "freedom" for "forgiveness" in Matt. 26:28 you have ...

"for the [freedom] of sins"

The sins do not need to be freed.

Secondly, Matt. 26:28 could not mean all will partake of freedom because it is for the forgiveness of many. Many will partake of it but not all choose to.

"For this is the blood of the covenant which is being poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." (v.28)

If you refuse to receive Christ you will not be a part of the "many".

The new covenant is established but you opt out of partaking of it.

Justification through forgiveness and pardon from sins establishes the righteousness in you before God by which your human spirit may be enlivened with the Divine Life of the Holy Spirit.

"But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the [human] spirit is life because of righteousness." (Rom. 8:10)

A man can receive eternal life only because of righteousness.
If no substitution of Christ for your sins there is no forgiveness, no justification, and therefore no righteousness.

If you believe to receive Christ as your Savior the innermost spirit is life BECAUSE of righteousness. And you can become JOINED to the Lord as His Spirit and your spirit unite together.

"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17)

Of course this does include a freedom and a loosing.

"And from Jesus Christ, the Firstborn of the dead, and the Ruler of the kings of the earth.

To Him who loves us and has released us [or loosed us] from our sins by His blood." (Rev. 1:5)

His ministry of justification is PRESENT day and not just the act of a dead and gone martyr. Christ IS ... not merely was ... but IS the propitiation, which means He is risen and alive and available now.

"And He Himself IS the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for those of the whole world."

Enough for this post.

@kellyjay said
You know when you have crossed a line is when you have to start changing the
text into something else to make it mean what you want.

You know when you have crossed a line is when you have to start changing the
text into something else to make it mean what you want.

In case you don't know, The NT was written in Greek - not English. That is the actual TEXT - not the English translation. So if the text was changed into "something else" it was in the translation. So if a "line was crossed" it was in the translation into English.

The word given as "forgiveness" in the translation provided by jaywill is "aphesis" in the original Greek and literally means "FREEdom". It only figuratively means "forgiveness". That's a fact. Of course facts mean little in KJ's world.

Strong's #859: aphesis (pronounced af'-es-is)
from 863; freedom; (figuratively) pardon:--deliverance, forgiveness, liberty, remission.


Thayer's Greek Lexicon:
̓́
aphesis
1) release from bondage or imprisonment
2) forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty
Part of Speech: noun feminine
Relation: from G863

Pasted from <http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/G859/aphesis.htm>

Any other lame objections?