Preaching / Believing

@sonship said

1) The word given as "forgiveness" literally means "FREEdom".

Appealing to some Thesaurus or synonyms won't erase Redemption. Even if you insist we substituted "freedom" for "forgiveness" in Matt. 26:28 you have ...

"for the [freedom] of sins"

The sins do not need to be freed.

Secondly, Matt. 26:28 coul ...[text shortened]... or ours only but also for those of the whole world." [/b] [/quote]

Enough for this post.

Appealing to some Thesaurus or synonyms won't erase Redemption. Even if you insist we substituted "freedom" for "forgiveness" in Matt. 26:28 you have ...

"for the [freedom] of sins"

The sins do not need to be freed.

See my post to KJ. Do any of you guys actually look at the Greek text in which the NT was originally written? Do you even know that the NT was originally written in Greek?

That was "FREEdom from sin" - not " [freedom] of sins". As in "FREEdom from committing sin" for the reasons I wrote.

Also, note that the exact same Greek word "aphesis" appears in Luke 4:18. In the following translation the exact same word is translated as FREEDOM. And that there is another reference to FREE. "Forgiveness" for the prisoners makes absolutely no sense.

Luke 4
"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free,"

@thinkofone said
You know when you have crossed a line is when you have to start changing the
text into something else to make it mean what you want.

In case you don't know, The NT was written in Greek - not English. That is the actual TEXT - not the English translation. So if the text was changed into "something else" it was in the translation. So if a "line was crossed" it was ...[text shortened]... ls.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/G859/aphesis.htm> [/quote]

Any other lame objections?

You should publish your own Bible since you don't actually pay any attention to
the ones already done. There are several groups who have translated text, there
are several ways to translate text. Nothing I have said I take back, translate the
whole, translate the meaning in context, translate word by word.

See my post to KJ. Do any of you guys actually look at the Greek text in which the NT was originally written? Do you even know that the NT was originally written in Greek?

Yes, some of us check the Greek or the Hebrew. You are not the only one who refers to Lexicons, Dictionaries, Word Studies from those who are experts in Greek or Hebrew is we are not.

That was "FREEdom from sin" - not " [freedom] of sins". As in "FREEdom from committing sin" for the reasons I wrote.

Granted for the moment. In context of the whole Bible that FREEDOM before God is because God has forgotten the sins.

"Their sins and their unrighteousness-es I will by no means remember anymore." (Heb. 8:12)

God has pardoned the offenses because a man DOES COUNT (in agreement with His oracles) and ACCEPT Jesus Christ as the "blank check" which can pay for all the offenses of mankind throughout the entire history of the world.

Your sins, my sins are serious. But He was the Lamb of God who takes away their guilty liability for eternity. He takes away the sins of the whole world.

One sacrifice for all was made. And you don't want to believe in Him for this?

For what ?? Some self righteous pride?
For what ?? So you can not identify with some religious people you think you can look down your nose at saying -- "WELL! AT LEAST I am not as bad as THEM! "

No ToO, you're not the only one who looks into the Greek translation tools.

I'm concerned more for your ENGLISH comprehension at the moment.

@kellyjay said
You should publish your own Bible since you don't actually pay any attention to
the ones already done. There are several groups who have translated text, there
are several ways to translate text. Nothing I have said I take back, translate the
whole, translate the meaning in context, translate word by word.

The facts are what they are KJ - no matter how much you may deny them.

The fact is that the word given as "forgiveness" in the translation provided by jaywill is "aphesis" in the original Greek and literally means "FREEdom".

The fact is that "FREEdom" makes so much more sense than "forgiveness" given the context which I've already cited. I don't expect that you'll actually address those points. You rarely if ever do, since facts mean little in KJ's world.

The crux of the matter is whether or not you can come before God and He will say that your sins and your unrighteousness He does not REMEMBER by any means.

IF you come before God at the judgment as to eternity and He still remembers your sins because you REFUSED to receive Christ - those remembered sins are not forgiven or forgotten.

God is Eternal and Infinite Perfection.

His love for you will not cause Him to give up His Eternal and Infinite Perfection.

The closest God comes to changing His eternal nature so that YOU can be absolved is His becoming a man in Jesus Christ and carrying up your sins in His body onto the cross, that He might be judged as a substitute for you.

That is going very far. In fact that is going as Far as God CAN go and will go.

KellyJay had it exactly right. In Christ (and you have to be IN Christ) we are made the righteousness of God because Christ was made sin for us.

" Him who did not know sin He made sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Cor. 5:21)

Do you know what this is ? This is dispute you have with God about authority. This is a controversy you are having with God over Who has the ultimate authority.

He has gone as far as He will or can go that you be justified.
If you refuse Christ it is " My will be done. "

And though His heart is saddened, God will say as you step on the threshold of eternity - "Okay then. Your will be done."

@thinkofone said
The facts are what they are KJ - no matter how much you may deny them.

The fact is that the word given as "forgiveness" in the translation provided by jaywill is "aphesis" in the original Greek and literally means "FREEdom".

The fact is that "FREEdom" makes so much more sense than "forgiveness" given the context which I've already cited. I don't expect that you'll actually address those points. You rarely if ever do, since facts mean little in KJ's world.

I'm not denying anything in the Word that would be you with that made up
saying of yours that you keep pushing without explaining it. There is nothing
about how you view scripture that is meaningful or trustworthy to me, you deny
and refuse to acknowledge so much about in and about it. Since you refuse to
acknowledge Christ, your words about Him too, do not mean much since you
preach a different Jesus and gospel. Do you acknowledge Jesus is alive
interceding for us now?

God was in Christ not counting the offenses of the believers against them. That is forgiveness.

" ... God in Christ was reconciling the world to Himself; not accounting their offenses to them, ... " (2 Cor. 5:19)

Regardless of what dictionaries Greek or English, ToO may resort to - God in Christ justifies people by not accounting their real offenses of real guilt against them, because they RECEIVE the Lord Jesus, the Reconciler.

As in "FREEdom from committing sin"

ThinkOfOne wants to establish a false dichotomy. He wants to teach that freedom from COMMITTING sins is the message of the NT RATHER THEN freedom from the GUILT of sins.

Probably by now I have referred to this passage 8 times in 10 years. There is with the new covenant a SAVED and a MUCH MORE SAVED.

Two Parts:

"For if we being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled." (Rom. 5:10)

1.) The Gospel then says I need a judicial redemption from sinful deeds AND an organic "much more" from the power of the sinning nature.

1.) Judicial Redemption concerning deeds done - "We .. being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son."

2.) Having BEEN thus reconciled their awaits a much more organic salvation in His life. " .much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled."

The "organic" saving in the realm of His life is based upon one HAVING BEEN reconciled "judicially."

Having BEEN forgiven through the death of His Son. we may go on to a much more salvation from the power of sin by means of the power of His life.

We cannot be saved in His life or freed from the sinning nature if His life in us is not involved. His indwelling life cannot exist unless He rose from the dead. No resurrection = No life of Christ to presently SAVE anyone from the power of sin.

cont.

He rose from the dead to transfigure Himself into a form in which He can come INTO us and lead us to be SAVED in the realm if His life.

"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45b)

That is how one gets into the realm of His life. One must receive Jesus Christ the living and life giving Holy Spirit.

Don't trust any "gospel" of "another Jesus" who is dead and gone who FREES anyone from sinning. It is a lie.

But ThinkOfOne clings to his invention - another Jesus whose ministry is OVER and is DEAD and is going to somehow free us from sinning. It is a lie.

IF Christ did not die a redemptive death no one has been reconciled to God through His death. And your everyday life testifies that you are still an enemy of God.

If Christ is not risen from the dead there is no life of Christ and no one can be much more saved in His life.

ThinkOfOne's "another Jesus" is meant to sound noble and self responsible. It is actually a rebellion against God and therefore a strong symptom of him still being an enemy of God.

By repeating that Christ in resurrection, became a divine life giving Spirit I do not mean the risen MAN Jesus is too abstract to be alive.

He is the life giving Spirit and He is actually somewhere at the highest peak of existence - the right hand of God, interceding for His people.

"Who is he who condemns? It is Christ Jesus who died and, rather, who was raised, who is also at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us." (Romans 8:34)

That actual man is interceding for people.

The One interceding for men and women, boys and girls, is also able to come INTO people as "a life giving Spirit" and be Christ in you.

" ... if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him.

But if Christ is in you ..." (See Rom 8:9,10)

Jesus Christ in reality then can be located in two places at once: in His believers as life giving Spirit of God and as the individual Man at the right hand of God interceding for you.

This is His present moment ministry. That is the ministry that ToO wants to deny. His heretical New Testament teaching consists of:

1.) He died.
2.) He did not die a redemptive death.
3.) His ministry terminated at His death.
4.) He is not alive.
5.) He cannot come to live supernaturally in anyone.
6.) He is not now presently interceding for anyone.

Don't believe it. Why not begin to read through the NT yourself?

The present day ministry of Jesus will extend to some of us forever and unto eternity! He ever lives to intercede for us and will request of His Father that we be saved to the uttermost.

" Hence also He is able to save to the UTTERMOST those who come forward to God through Him, since He lives always to intercede for them." (Hebrews 7:25)

In this way, both positionally and dispositionally in Christ believers will be presented holy and without blemish of any kind eventually, in love before our Maker and God.

"Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love." (Eph. 1:4)

SAVED ... to the UTTERMOST.

@sonship said
The crux of the matter is whether or not you can come before God and He will say that your sins and your unrighteousness He does not REMEMBER by any means.

IF you come before God at the judgment as to eternity and He still remembers your sins because you REFUSED to receive Christ - those remembered sins are not forgiven or forgotten.

God is Eternal and Infinite Perf ...[text shortened]... s saddened, God will say as you step on the threshold of eternity - "Okay then. Your will be done."

This is what happens with the likes of you and KJ when you are unable to formulate a cogent argument to refute the points of my posts: You mindlessly parrot the dogma that you've been taught. It's your only defense.

This is dispute you have with God about authority. This is a controversy you are having with God over Who has the ultimate authority.

According to the gospel in which you believe. A gospel which is antithetical to the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.

@sonship said

As in "FREEdom from committing sin"

ThinkOfOne wants to establish a false dichotomy. He wants to teach that freedom from COMMITTING sins is the message of the NT RATHER THEN freedom from the GUILT of sins.

Probably by now I have referred to this passage 8 times in 10 years. There is with the new covenant a SAVED and a MUCH MORE SAVED.

Two Pa ...[text shortened]... from the dead. No resurrection = No life of Christ to presently SAVE anyone from the power of sin.

ThinkOfOne wants to establish a false dichotomy. He wants to teach that freedom from COMMITTING sins is the message of the NT RATHER THEN freedom from the GUILT of sins.

Actually it's the message of the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry:

John 8
"34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
" 31 ...If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
"36So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. "
" 35The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
51Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”

@kellyjay said
I'm not denying anything in the Word that would be you with that made up
saying of yours that you keep pushing without explaining it. There is nothing
about how you view scripture that is meaningful or trustworthy to me, you deny
and refuse to acknowledge so much about in and about it. Since you refuse to
acknowledge Christ, your words about Him too, do not mean much sin ...[text shortened]... you
preach a different Jesus and gospel. Do you acknowledge Jesus is alive
interceding for us now?

Yet somehow once again you are unable to formulate a cogent argument that refutes the points of what I've posted. If you were on the side of TRUTH, you'd be able to do so. But you aren't, so you can't.

I advocate for the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.

You believe in a different gospel. That's why the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry is not "meaningful or trustworthy" to you.

@sonship said
cont.

He rose from the dead to transfigure Himself into a form in which He can come INTO us and lead us to be SAVED in the realm if His life.

"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45b)

That is how one gets into the realm of His life. One must receive Jesus Christ the living and life giving Holy Spirit.

Don't trust a ...[text shortened]... actually a rebellion against God and therefore a strong symptom of him still being an enemy of God.

It is actually a rebellion against God and therefore a strong symptom of him still being an enemy of God.

Actually it's a rebellion again the gospel in which you believe. You believe in a gospel that is antithetical to the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. It is what it is.