Pregnant Smokers and Drinkers

Originally posted by ivanhoe

If she is voluntarily behaving in such a way causing harm to the unborn child then this constitutes a form of child abuse and she should change her ways.

That's not the issue in this thread; we can all agree that "she should change her ways". The issue is should the State pass laws compelling her to change her ways under threat of criminal sanctions i.e. prison or jail. Yes or no, Ivanhoe?

Originally posted by no1marauder
A stranger on the street? Or someone you know?

It is the duty of her friends and family to tell her that.

Of course you don't adress a woman in the street showing such behaviour.

Originally posted by no1marauder
That's not the issue in this thread; we can all agree that "she should change her ways". The issue is should the State pass laws compelling her to change her ways under threat of criminal sanctions i.e. prison or jail. Yes or no, Ivanhoe?

Jail is not the answer to the problem. So the answer is no.

Originally posted by ivanhoe

Jail is not the answer to the problem. So the answer is no.

Jail not being a solution should not have a bearing on whether society finds an action to be criminal.

For example, the threat of jail does nothing to prevent crimes of passion, for one does not consider the consequences of one's actions in such instances. The fact that incarceration doesn't deter or solve the problem should not be considered sufficient reason to decriminalize murdering in anger.

Originally posted by ivanhoe

Jail is not the answer to the problem. So the answer is no.

Jail is not the only option. And it does not have to be a criminal law.

Originally posted by Coletti
Yes. It drives me nuts!

how sanctimonious are you?? Wheres the evidence that smoking causes brain damage...maybe pregnant women should wear masks so not to inhale petrol fumes from traffic. Pubs/clubs...out of the question..passive smoking. What you eat is far more dangerous to an unborn child. There are 60 different pesticides etc on 1 apple that British supermarkets fill their shelves with everyday

Originally posted by wucky3
how sanctimonious are you?? Wheres the evidence that smoking causes brain damage...maybe pregnant women should wear masks so not to inhale petrol fumes from traffic. Pubs/clubs...out of the question..passive smoking. What you eat is far more dangerous to an unborn child. There are 60 different pesticides etc on 1 apple that British supermarkets fill their shelves with everyday

Are you saying you'd be perfectly comfortable going out to a bar for a nightly smoke and drink with a pregnant friend? You'd have no qualms about that?

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Are you saying you'd be perfectly comfortable going out to a bar for a nightly smoke and drink with a pregnant friend? You'd have no qualms about that?

I personally don't think pregnant women should smoke..my point is there are other enviromental factors that are far more damaging.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Jail not being a solution should not have a bearing on whether society finds an action to be criminal.

For example, the threat of jail does nothing to prevent crimes of passion, for one does not consider the consequences of one's actions in such instances. The fact that incarceration doesn't deter or solve the problem should not be considered sufficient reason to decriminalize murdering in anger.

You ask in your first post:

"Should women who smoke or drink while they are pregnant be subject to criminal penalty?"

What penalty do you have in mind ?

My stance is that criminal penalty is not the solution. Educating people is.

Originally posted by ivanhoe

What penalty do you have in mind ?

Crucifixion, as I have already mentioned.

Originally posted by wucky3
I personally don't think pregnant women should smoke..my point is there are other enviromental factors that are far more damaging.

Really? The intentional inhalation of carcinogens seems a pretty harsh thing to do. What other "environmental" factors are so fully under her control and so clearly detrimental to the fetus?

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Jail not being a solution should not have a bearing on whether society finds an action to be criminal.

For example, the threat of jail does nothing to prevent crimes of passion, for one does not consider the consequences of one's actions in such instances. The fact that incarceration doesn't deter or solve the problem should not be considered sufficient reason to decriminalize murdering in anger.

What purpose of the criminal law would be fulfilled by having a law against a woman smoking while pregnant if it did not deter such conduct? I do not agree that the threat of jail "does nothing to prevent crimes of passion": "crimes of passion" are rarely 100% passion and people do generally consider the threat of jail in contemplating their actions.

Originally posted by no1marauder
What purpose of the criminal law would be fulfilled by having a law against a woman smoking while pregnant if it did not deter such conduct?

Excising a malignant tumor from society.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Excising a malignant tumor from society.

Crucifixion seems an inefficient way to do that. Ask the Romans.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Crucifixion seems an inefficient way to do that. Ask the Romans.

After I read this post all the lights went out. Hmmm
Anyways, should I rec it or should I leave it to a Christian?