Proof of the non-existence of God

Originally posted by josephw
Have you ever considered that it is because of the lack of God in peoples lives that causes them to commit evil?

It hasn't been my experience that Christians on the whole are any more moral than the general public. It hasn't been my experience that Christians on the whole are any less likely to commit evil. Is this due to the lack of God in the lives of Christians on the whole?

Originally posted by rwingett
There can be no doubt? But then it's an entirely subjective opinion open for debate? I'm sure you can spot the contradiction there. If there can be no doubt, then it is not a subjective opinion and it is not open for debate. If it is a subjective opinion and is open for debate, then obviously there is some doubt.

No one has the right to force anyone to believe anything? No one except god, that is.

The fact that there is no doubt for me IS a subjective point of view because it based on my own experience.

I experience God through creation, and personal contact on a spiritual level. There is no doubt!

But it's entirely subjective because it's my own personal experience.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
It hasn't been my experience that Christians on the whole are any more moral than the general public. It hasn't been my experience that Christians on the whole are any less likely to commit evil. Is this due to the lack of God in the lives of Christians on the whole?

Yes.

Originally posted by josephw
Yes.

Thank you for speaking the truth. Those Chistians who continue to sin have no more God in their lives than members of the general public who continue to sin at the same level. This seems to indicate that Christianity as it is practiced is irrelevant. Unfortunately Christians do not follow the teachings and commandments of Jesus any better than the general public - their willingness to profess love and belief notwithstanding. It's tragic.

Originally posted by rwingett
Anthropomorphism n. Attribution of human motivation, characteristics, or behavior to inanimate objects, animals, or natural phenomena.

It is giving [b]human characteristics to something, not believing inanimate objects are alive. The root 'anthro' refers to man.[/b]

I stand corrected on that detail, although I would plead that that is what I meant to be fair; perhaps you bothered to looked the accurate meaning up. However it's spliting hairs over semantics within the context of this debate, as it's hard for an inanimate object to be described as having DEAD human characterstics.

Nevertheless my point remains valid that adults and humans are very different in the belief and reality strategies, therefore the comparison with a kiddy believing in Santa is not the same as an adult believing in God.

My exasperation was with the post that dismissed a very valid point by KNIGHTMEISTER, who was explaining how is wife PROVED to him she loved him every day in her actions and through his experience of her, but he could not PROVE this fact to anyone else. It's a good point and was dismissed with what i felt was a stock response from the athiest fairytale stable.

By the way rwingett, you have no idea of what type of school I attended, no any idea of my IQ, my shirt size or my favourite colour, so please try to restrain your presumptive arrogance from making arbitary inferences about me based on very limited information - gosh you sound like a religionist!

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Thank you for speaking the truth. Those Chistians who continue to sin have no more God in their lives than members of the general public who continue to sin at the same level. This seems to indicate that Christianity as it is practiced is irrelevant. It's tragic.

The thing is though, you and I are worlds apart doctrinally.

Yes it's true. It appears that the "Christianity", as it is practiced today, is anemic.

But why? I don't think we'll agree, but it might be worth the discussion.

Originally posted by divegeester
Thank you for helping me with the definition of trite. your presumption of my ignornce and assumption of your own superiority is astonishing.

To propose that adults believe in God for the same reason that a child believes in Santa (i.e. fairytails) and to hold as proof that God doesn't exist, is an tired argument used so many times (especially in this ...[text shortened]... e, it's called anthropomorphism, you may want to look this up in a cognitive development book.

Children are different from adults in that an adult doesn't normally rely on "personal experience" when facts make that "personal experience" suspect. KM has decided he wants to think like a child.

Thanks for proving my point.

This is addressed to THinkOfOne

==================================
Yes it's true. It appears that the "Christianity", as it is practiced today, is anemic.
==================================

But why? I don't think we'll agree, but it might be worth the discussion.[/b]

There have been many Christian writers who have pointed out where the experience of some believers is abnormal. Unlike you they don't just complain about it. They show people the way out into a richer experience of Christ.

So you sit there and talk and talk about enemic Christianity. So what? If you know so much better that probably means that you yourself will be held all the more responsible by God, since you claim to know how everyone else should be living.

I am much more impressed with those who by example and clear teaching can lead Christians out of an enemic state and into victory.

Apparently you're adept at accusatory whinning and that's all.

Originally posted by josephw
The thing is though, you and I are worlds apart doctrinally.

Yes it's true. It appears that the "Christianity", as it is practiced today, is anemic.

But why? I don't think we'll agree, but it might be worth the discussion.

A couple of things come to mind:

1) Many Christians are taught and believe that it is impossible for them to stop committing sin. This goes against what Jesus taugt in John 8:32-36.

2) Many Christians are taught and believe that they have "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation" even though they continue to commit sin. Jesus never taught this and in fact this goes against what Jesus taught.

3) Many Christians are taught and believe that they are
"accepted by God the way they are" even though they continue to commit sin. Jesus never taught this and in fact this goes against what Jesus taught.


The above hinder Christians from being born of the spirit, i.e. truth, love, compassion, justice, etc. Instead they remain born of the flesh, i.e. self-centeredness and therefore continue to commit sin. They don't feel compelled to continue in the word of Jesus until such a transformation is complete.


Why do you think it so?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
A couple of things come to mind:

1) Many Christians are taught and believe that it is impossible for them to stop committing sin. This goes against what Jesus taugt in John 8:32-36.

2) Many Christians are taught and believe that they have "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation" even though they continue to commit sin. Jesus never taught this and in he word of Jesus until such a transformation is complete.


Why do you think it so?

So what's the answer for a Christian to have a more full experience of Christ?

Is it to throw up your hands and become atheist ?

I mean let's see your remedy to the problems you love to mention (valid or not).

Originally posted by jaywill
There have been many Christian writers who have pointed out where the experience of some believers is abnormal. Unlike you they don't just complain about it. They show people the way out into a richer experience of Christ.

So you sit there and talk and talk about enemic Christianity. So what? If you know so much better that probably means that you yours ...[text shortened]... ic state and into victory.

Apparently you're adept at accusatory whinning and that's all.

Hold on jaywill. Not so fast!

I make one statement to TOo, and you jump down my throat.

This forum isn't exactly a Christian evironment. You've taken me out of context.

"They show people the way out into a richer experience of Christ."

Exactly! But how?

Originally posted by josephw
Hold on jaywill. Not so fast!

I make one statement to TOo, and you jump down my throat.

This forum isn't exactly a Christian evironment. You've taken me out of context.

[b]"They show people the way out into a richer experience of Christ."

Exactly! But how?[/b]

No Joseph,

That post was not addressed to you at all.

I thought ThinkOfOne was the "enemic Christianity" poster. Am I right or wrong?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
A couple of things come to mind:

1) Many Christians are taught and believe that it is impossible for them to stop committing sin. This goes against what Jesus taugt in John 8:32-36.

2) Many Christians are taught and believe that they have "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation" even though they continue to commit sin. Jesus never taught this and in ...[text shortened]... he word of Jesus until such a transformation is complete.


Why do you think it so?

To be honest, I'm sort of confounded by your line of reasoning.

Not to debate with any one point you make, but at what point in life are we accepted by God?

Is it when we stop sinning? I've never heard of anyone that ever has. I've never heard anyone ever say they have stopped sinning.

Originally posted by jaywill
No Joseph,

That post was not addressed to you at all.

I thought ThinkOfOne was the "enemic Christianity" poster. Am I right or wrong?

whew! For a minute there I though I had offended you, albeit inadvertantly.

Continue on brother! 🙂

Originally posted by josephw
To be honest, I'm sort of confounded by your line of reasoning.

Not to debate with any one point you make, but at what point in life are we accepted by God?

Is it when we stop sinning? I've never heard of anyone that ever has. I've never heard anyone ever say they have stopped sinning.

I need to read the posts and authors more carefully. Sorry.

I don't think ThinkOfOne is concerned about the sinning or victory of Christians.

I think he is concerned with honing in his skills with "Gotchya!" theology. He wants to put Christians in hog tie by selecting portions of the Bible he thinks present logically impossible dilemmas for believers.

I think he is interested in creating a "no way out" theological puzzle for believers in the Bible.

But they are not that clever if one follows the simple principle that Jesus followed with the tempter. Don't just know what the Scripture says. Know what else the Scripture says.

Don't just know what is written but know what else "again, it is written".