Pure gray area

Originally posted by FMF
Like I said, besides US domestic politics and President Obama, do you have any other issues "where should we draw the lines", especially for issues where the line lies in a very "grey" place?

I stand behind the proverb that the root of evil is the love of money.

This is what makes politics politics. You can call it gray if you like, but I call it evil.

Originally posted by whodey
Politics is the gutter of human existance. Those that dwell there are universally accepted as liars, cheats, and sell outs.

This may be true in the US. In Indonesia, while there are a very small number who are "universally" seen as "liars, cheats, and sell outs", the vast majority of politicians are very respected in certain quarters and there are those who are very popular because of their achievements, some make effective and often widely admired executives, and there a small number who are more or less "universally accepted" as having good integrity and sound objectives. The claim that politicians "are universally accepted as liars, cheats, and sell outs" would not be true in the country where I live.

Originally posted by FMF
This may be true in the US. In Indonesia, while there are a very small number who are "universally" seen as "liars, cheats, and sell outs", the vast majority of politicians are very respected in certain quarters and there are those who are very popular because of their achievements, some make effective and often widely admired executives, and there a small numbe ...[text shortened]... ersally accepted as liars, cheats, and sell outs" would not be true in the country where I live.

I suppose the less money involved the less corrupt they are, which is why the US system is so hopelessly corrupt.

This is why the Founding Fathers are so well respected. Some gave up their fortunes to create a free government, and all put their lives on the line had England crushed the rebellion.

I can't picure anyone in the US federal government today doing either.

Originally posted by whodey
I stand behind the proverb that the root of evil is the love of money.

This is what makes politics politics. You can call it gray if you like, but I call it evil.

So why aren't you posting this on the "Pure evil" thread?

Your OP said:

We have a thread for pure goodness and pure evil, so I guess this thread covers the rest.

So let's have it, what are your gray areas?

I think everyone recognizes the gray area revolving around free will and the damage that it can inflict as well as stripping our freedoms and making us all slaves. Those who are religious and those who are not are fully intent on limiting free will to the best of their ability in order to keep everyone safe, or to save mother earth etc. At the same time, both become irrate if they perceive their own freedoms to wane.

If you feel politics and generating wealth are "evil", and not "grey areas", perhaps you need to raise them on that other thread that this one was supposed to be about?

Originally posted by FMF
So why aren't you posting this on the "Pure evil" thread?

Your OP said:

[b]We have a thread for pure goodness and pure evil, so I guess this thread covers the rest.

So let's have it, what are your gray areas?

I think everyone recognizes the gray area revolving around free will and the damage that it can inflict as well as stripping our freedoms an ...[text shortened]... as", perhaps you need to raise them on that other thread that this one was supposed to be about?

Why? Because everyone else seems to think of it as a gray area.

The only gray areas are our own twisted perception of good and evil.

Originally posted by whodey
I suppose the less money involved the less corrupt they are, which is why the US system is so hopelessly corrupt.

This seems to me to be a bit of a Dog Bites Man topic. Are there any issues where there are "grey areas", aside from US domestic politics, that you want to explore ~ ones where you yourself concede that the issue resides in a "grey area"?

Originally posted by FMF
This seems to me to be a bit of a Dog Bites Man topic. Are there any issues where there are "grey areas", aside from US domestic politics, that you want to explore ~ ones where you yourself concede that the issue resides in a "grey area"?

How about this, is taking up arms against a perceived evil "good"?

Originally posted by whodey
Why? Because everyone else seems to think of it as a gray area.

The only gray areas are our own twisted perception of good and evil.

I do not purport to be "everyone else". A vast extent of political interaction is conducted by ordinary, flawed individuals who for the most part are interested in public service and achieving things on behalf of society and their constituents. I have no doubt that there are some "evil" people among them and that "evil" things occur, but most of what goes on in most democratic places qualified for the "grey area" label I think.

Originally posted by whodey
How about this, is taking up arms against a perceived evil "good"?

Yes, I think it can be.

Originally posted by FMF
I do not purport to be "everyone else". A vast extent of political interaction is conducted by ordinary, flawed individuals who for the most part are interested in public service and achieving things on behalf of society and their constituents. I have no doubt that there are some "evil" people among them and that "evil" things occur, but most of what goes on in most democratic places qualified for the "grey area" label I think.

What I find sad is that the vast number of people I run into seem to look up the the authority of the state no matter the morality they sell us.

For example, back in the day, slavery was legal. By in large people simply accepted it because they looked to the state. Centuries later, after being made illegal, the very notion of slavery seems evil and absurd to us.

It is a sobering reminder that we are sheep.

Originally posted by whodey
What I find sad is that the vast number of people I run into seem to look up the the authority of the state no matter the morality they sell us.

For example, back in the day, slavery was legal. By in large people simply accepted it because they looked to the state. Centuries later, after being made illegal, the very notion of slavery seems evil and absurd to us.

It is a sobering reminder that we are sheep.

Is slavery a "grey area" for you, is that what you are saying?

Originally posted by FMF
Yes, I think it can be.

I don't think there is any doubt about it, it is a gray area.

For example, virtually no one sees anything wrong with a policeman killing another person in order to save another. However, take the same scenrio of someone taking up arms to overthrow a government who may be doing the same things and it takes on a different shade of gray.

Originally posted by whodey
I don't think there is any doubt about it, it is a gray area.

Agreed.

Originally posted by whodey
It is a sobering reminder that we are sheep.

I don't agree that opposition to slavery is an example of people being "sheep". I think it is an example of moral progress.

Originally posted by FMF
Is slavery a "grey area" for you, is that what you are saying?

No. From my perspective, slavery is the natural state of fallen man. It is simply a byproduct of evil.

Looking at human history, it would be hard to argue this point since the vast majority of men who have walked the earth have been slaves.

Mankind is continually trying to come up with the perfect form of government to sell society that will usher in utopia. The problem is, the issue is mankind's fallen nature, not the form of government.

Will mankind ever learn? It ain't look'in good. 😞