religion is an expression of fear

Originally posted by josephw
You should stop pretending, period.

You enter the scene thousands of years after the fact and you think you know what it's all about. You're full of misinformation.

Are your gods present?

Originally posted by josephw
You know the drill. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. Without Jesus there is no life.

Jesus is alive and you have no evidence to the contrary. Eternal life is being offered to you, but you'd rather live in the dark not knowing where you're going after you die.

Quit lying to yourself. You have no assurance of anything except you know you're going ...[text shortened]... ad and believe there's nothing after death even though you know you don't know for sure what's next.

You know nothing, jon snow. My beliefs do not come from your scripture.

Originally posted by KellyJay
No, there is nothing that condemns us other than our own sins. When we hate another,
when we speak bad about another, when we do not keep our words, when we treat others
badly, when we condemn others for things we do, and things like that, that will condemn us.

The thing about Christianity is that God reached down to mankind to help, He either did
that o ...[text shortened]... less God accepts them they are only
as good as their sources. With Christianity, God is the source.

The new testament is okay, for good old people. I don't think my problem is with you.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Your 'given' is false, therefore the rest of your argument goes nowhere.

Say what you mean. I'll reprint the post if it helps. You are a good person with good faith, I know this. But your objection is so ambiguous, it has no power.

Originally posted by apathist
Say what you mean. I'll reprint the post if it helps. You are a good person with good faith, I know this. But your objection is so ambiguous, it has no power.

The "given" in your argument is this:

"We don't know what is going on now, or what happened, or what happens next."

That's just false. We do not need God because we don't know. We need God because we DO know. And I don't mean YOUR definition of God.

Originally posted by Suzianne
The "given" in your argument is this:

"We don't know what is going on now, or what happened, or what happens next."

That's just false. We do not need God because we don't know. We need God because we DO know. And I don't mean YOUR definition of God.

You aren't a stupid thinker, but claim to be all-knowing! We aren't on the same page.

Throughout history and across the globe, people say they know the gods. Only your group sends all others to eternity of torment, and your group is not cohesive! You have to back off young lady or you know, we are content to wait for your type to die off.

Originally posted by apathist
The new testament is okay, for good old people. I don't think my problem is with you.

The Net Testament or Old the messages were the same, also it isn't the people but the
text that matters when it comes to scripture. All the truths about loving others, being good,
and so on were in the OT as they were the NT. The difference is the Law in the OT and
Jesus' grace in the NT.

Originally posted by Rajk999
What exactly is a relationship with Jesus Christ? Because nowhere does Jesus say any such thing about having a relationship with him, and neither does the Apostles.

I notice you say / support several doctrines which are not in the Bible eg
- Jesus was born without sin.
- When good people die they go to heaven.
- That the wicked are tormented in hell ...[text shortened]... you guys have serious communication issues. I suggest you have some more respect for the man 🙂

Bible worshiper, more like it.

Originally posted by apathist
You aren't a stupid thinker, but claim to be all-knowing! We aren't on the same page.

Throughout history and across the globe, people say they know the gods. Only your group sends all others to eternity of torment, and your group is not cohesive! You have to back off young lady or you know, we are content to wait for your type to die off.

Die in your sin, and it is you who will be "dying off".

Originally posted by KellyJay
The Net Testament or Old the messages were the same, also it isn't the people but the
text that matters when it comes to scripture. All the truths about loving others, being good,
and so on were in the OT as they were the NT. The difference is the Law in the OT and
Jesus' grace in the NT.

Non-theists leave their vaunted 'reason' behind when they manage to finally crack open the Bible and actually take a look. Funny how they then assume that we do, too.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Non-theists leave their vaunted 'reason' behind when they manage to finally crack open the Bible and actually take a look. Funny how they then assume that we do, too.

We all do it to some extent, we judge by what we know...what else could we do. Which is
why I don't sweat it when sharing the gospel. I cannot talk anyone into meeting God through
Jesus, God has to do that not me for it to be real.

Originally posted by apathist

We don't know what is going on now, or what happened, or what happens next. Therefore we need gods.

I remember a few years ago the Boston Globe had an article about Evolution. One entire page was reserved for a photograph of the aged bearded Charles Darwin - one entire page for a mug shot of the saintly old sage of Evolution.

The picture was as much religious as any fresca at St. Peter's basilica in Rome.
"We're going to just AWE you out with a huge picture of the "god" Charles Darwin !

I guess young people were being compelled to fall to their knees and say five "Hail Darwin - full of grades".


But we have studied existence and history and science, and the need for gods is fading.
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LOL. A Brief History of Time has been said to be the best selling and least read book of modern times.

How many times do you see on the Internet "the MOST ----" or "The TOP ten ----" or some other superlative indication of the Best, the Worst, the Most something or other.

You might speak to the need as to why there should be this need in the first place.

"The TOP car"
"The TOP music video"
"The TOP singer"
"The TOP actress"
"The TOP city "
"The TOP state"
"The TOP country"
etc. etc. etc.

No apathist, people still have a need to exalt something very very high as the "most high". Hugely the Internet exposes people's innate desire to exalt something to worship or near worship status.


Gods are nowhere to be found.
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What is a "Diva" ?
How come I see multitudes of young folks waving their hands high in the air by the hundreds at some mediocre Rock musician struggling to be innovative?

No apathist. People still want to be beside themselves in an exalting ecstasy of worship. And that even if it is the worship of some entertainer that does something to quench the sense of boredom they have with life.

The late Atheist Christopher Hitchens I heard adoring physicist Lawrence Krauss as the greatest[/b] ... the [i]GREATEST living physicist. Hitchens needed his "god" to save him from God.

No talking snakes or parting seas are happening anymore. No virgin births or real miracles anywhere except in the mythic past.
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The speaking serpent in Genesis is a good way for God to inform the whole of humanity that our beginnings were grounded in the supernatural and not in the natural.

Everyone can understand that a speaking serpent should not be.
Rather than naivete in the account of Satan coming to the first people as speaking snake, I see foreknowledge and wisdom in allowing things to occur in that way.

Our origins are rooted in things of a supernatural nature.


The mythic past is just from our memories when we were ignorant but were showing signs of brilliance. To shine brighter, we should realize that childhood fantasies are useful until we are ready to leave them behind.
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I think re-runs of Star Wars and Star Trek will look as naive to future folks as old 1940s re-runs of Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon do to audiences of today.

No Bible thumper here, explains why we probably won't be going to Mars for the foreseeable future.

Why We Can't God to Mars
Okay, or Why We Can't God to Mars .... YET

1 hour and five minutes. I've seen the whole thing.

YouTube&t=128s


We have so many things to figure out right here in the real world. Unless your gods are natural, they are not showing up to help us.

You mean you trusted others who did a lot of work,
Some of them will leave your children with a world dying because they didn't think there were environmental effects to the planet after the money was made.

"When the last fish is caught, the last river polluted, and the last tree cut down, then man will realize that he cannot eat money."

Originally posted by apathist
Not a new realization, it is just that my skepticism has less and less to hold on to. There is something hateful and wrong about the abrahamic religions. I believe we should stop pretending otherwise.

You mean that you see something hateful and wrong about it.

Try to not mistake your perception for reality.

Originally posted by sonship
[b][quote] We don't know what is going on now, or what happened, or what happens next.

Typo correction:

Why We Can't Go [edited] to Mars
Okay, or Why We Can't Go [edited] to Mars .... YET

1 hour and five minutes. I've seen the whole thing.

YouTube&t=128s