Revelations 20:12

Originally posted by David C
What does it mean? Freaky? RBHill? Thanks, I need the answer for my Bible Studies class.

Hope I didn't leave you hanging too long without an acceptable volley. To properly understand John's Revelation is an undertaking, to put it mildly. It's a lot like some of the current independent (and a few mainstream) films that employ time dashes without the benefit of a voiceover. First you're viewing what just happened, then you're viewing what started that event a great deal of time in the past, then you're seeing the futurition of those events.

John's vision is confusing when read sans any hint of the time being revealed. However, with the secret decod---oops, sorry, wasn't supposed to let that out! What I meant to say was, when exegetical study is applied to the book, the vision is a panorama of, well, biblical purportions. It is breathtaking, really.

To understand v.12, one must know what is surrounding it, in addition to other exegetical demands. Without getting into all of those questions, suffice to say that the vision was (obviously) not decimated by chapter and verse until well after the fact. That is worthy to note insofar as v.12 is preceded by a very lenghty chain of events, as well as followed by the same--- both before 'chapter' 20, and following into 'chapter' 21.

These events are most easily identified by the KAI, 'and,' which precedes each of the phases of events. For instance, v.11:
KAI EIAON... or
"And I-perceived..."
(you'll have to forgive the substitution for Greek letters with their English equivalents)

The entire verse looks like this, transliterated:
"And I-perceived throne great white and the One-sitting on it of-whom from the face fled the land and the heaven and place not was-found to-them," or:
"And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."

This verse tells us what happens chronologically in relation to v.12, namely, that those in v.12 are that part of humanity which will face the Great White Throne Judgment.

Verse 12 goes on to talk of two books, or rather, scrolls. There is the scroll of life, and there is the scroll of works. If your name is not found on the scroll of life, you will be judged according to your deeds recorded on the scroll of works.

This second scroll will be taken to the person's deed-filled life, and all will be revealed: good, bad and ugly. They may have 1,254,463.333 (they split one with two other people) good deeds; 354,724 bad deeds and sixteen ugly ones. Regardless that their good deeds far outweighed both their bad and ugly deeds combined, because their names were not written on the scroll of life, they are cast into the lake of fire as part of the second death.

The secret is to get your name written on the scroll of life, and not have to go before the righteous Judge standing on your own works. As someone here has already posted, the Lord Jesus Christ has said explicitly, His yoke is easy, His burden is light. We cannot affect our freedom by our works. His burden is easy because He did all the work. Our part is faith. Non-meritorious faith in the work that Jesus Christ did on the cross on our behalf is all the effort He is willing to accept from us for salvation.

Once a person accepts this great salvation, their name is forever written on the scroll of life. The second death cannot touch them, ever.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
This second scroll will be taken to the person's deed-filled life, and all will be revealed: good, bad and ugly. They may have 1,254,463.333 (they split one with two other people) good deeds; 354,724 bad deeds and sixteen ugly ones. Regardless that their good deeds far outweighed both their bad and ugly deeds combined, because their names were not written on the scroll of life, they are cast into the lake of fire as part of the second death.

I really dont get it. Why add up all the deeds if the decision is already made? And what happened to the whole "God is Just" concept?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Once a person accepts this great salvation, their name is forever written on the scroll of life. .

I guess Christ does not have a clue. He thinks He is going to judge everyone by WORKS.

Originally posted by David C
I'll ask my Sunday School teacher if she has any copies tucked away. Maybe Lucy's Hamster has them in .PDF?

Better yet, I'll give a link:

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm


Btw, why is it that you, howardgee and no1 seem to take so much pleasure in silly name-calling? You would've thought people would outgrow it in first grade.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I really dont get it. Why add up all the deeds if the decision is already made? And what happened to the whole "God is Just" concept?

Fortunately your name was either written in the book of life (or not) at the "foundation of the world".

So just sit back, wait and see.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I really dont get it. Why add up all the deeds if the decision is already made? And what happened to the whole "God is Just" concept?

Actually, you hit the nail on the head. Because He is just, all of a person's deeds are considered. As in the example given, however, regardless of the balance of the deeds, it all adds up to minus-righteousness. In order for anyone to be with God, they must possess an acceptable righteousness. For believers, this righeousness is imputed to them at the moment of salvation.

The reason their works are not considered is because they stand before God imputed wtih Christ's righteousness, regardless of their own.

Originally posted by dottewell
Fortunately your name was either written in the book of life (or not) at the "foundation of the world".

So just sit back, wait and see.

Exactly right. At the foundation of creation, God knew how each person would decide in their lifetime regarding His plan. A person's name is not 'added to the scroll,' as it were; God knows the believers beforehand.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Exactly right. At the foundation of creation, God knew how each person would decide in their lifetime regarding His plan. A person's name is not 'added to the scroll,' as it were; God knows the believers beforehand.

A strange and pointless experiment.

Originally posted by dottewell
A strange and pointless experiment.

Do tell.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Do tell.

Creating billions of people you knew were destined for the "fiery lake", many for little more than an accident of birth.

Originally posted by dottewell
Creating billions of people you knew were destined for the "fiery lake", many for little more than an accident of birth.

I can tell you're truly upset for them. It's much less of an insult if you concern yourself with but one person: yourself. Funny, when the issue comes down to whether He should have created your soul, the objections cease.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
I can tell you're truly upset for them. It's much less of an insult if you concern yourself with but one person: yourself. Funny, when the issue comes down to whether He should have created your soul, the objections cease.

Not really. Y'see, if I'm also destined for the "fiery lake" simply because my "god-given" intellect tells me there's no god, I'd much rather he hadn't bothered.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Hope I didn't leave you hanging too long without an acceptable volley. To properly understand John's Revelation is an undertaking, to put it mildly. It's a lot like some of the current independent (and a few mainstream) films that employ time dashes without the benefit of a voiceover. First you're viewing what just happened, then you're viewing what sta ...[text shortened]... written on the scroll of life. The second death cannot touch them, ever.

and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

That's sure a funny way to word the idea that works don't matter at all on Judgment Day (which is, of course, a misnomer according to your peculiar theology).

Originally posted by masscat
At this Judgment Day that’s being discussed, let me warn all of you who keep rejecting what you are being told about Jesus, the words you write here may come back to haunt you.

Anyway, I’m glad Jesus isn’t looking for “good” people. He came to seek and to save those that were lost and without hope.

Thanks for the warning. Have you ever read Matthew 25:30-46?